Popular view of French SUV's.

my partner and I used to go camping when we were in our 20s and possibly our 30s. We are in late 50s now and we have a saying: "every decade I get older, I need another star on my hotel." If staying in a tent is the only option, we aren't going there.
 
That's a bit odd about the 505 being a good towing car because they're so woolly at the join between the rear guards and the C-pillar ;)
 
Mike Tippett said:
That's a bit odd about the 505 being a good towing car because they're so woolly at the join between the rear guards and the C-pillar ;)
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I was thinking that myself. Also the rear suspension is a bit soft in the sedan, maybe they were talking about the wagon? My 504 wagon is a brilliant tow car.
 
Mike Tippett said:
That's a bit odd about the 505 being a good towing car because they're so woolly at the join between the rear guards and the C-pillar ;)
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spot on mike, in my workshop days had a customer with 505 Sti,aftermarket tow bar. came in and had creases in quarter panels and cracking at lower c pillar screen joints. had a look at tow bar and only supported at bumper mounts with no forward bar for support. apparently towing 24ft van on undulating road driver could see quarter panel flexing in side mirror along with creaking noise. he scrapped the car, bought a 505gti with proper tow bar, not sure if he downsized van....... jim
 
I've managed to tow anything I needed to with any of my Renaults. The r12, the fuego, the r25, rx4 scenic and the Koleos.
But the Koleos is in another league for starters because it is automatic. That alone makes it a no contest to anything (manual) that's come before.
AWD is invaluable at the boat ramp at low tide or on sand.
In a difficult reversing uphill situation, where low speed is a critical component, a manual car, or at least a manual without a low range 1st gear is quite taxing on the clutch. You can smell the dollars!!
Whilst the RX4 was quite capable once you'd cracked your load of from standstill, the gear ratio of first gear was just way off what you want so it was a bit of a tow-car fail.

Whenever I see a massive boat covered in barnacles at the ramp getting dragged onto a huge tri-axle trailer, without exception it is being hauled out by a crusty old dyhatsu dyna tipper.
Now that is a seriously capable tow vehicle, with a great low range first gear, huge brakes and a massive diff, where in any gear, high speed is never going to be a concern!

Jo
 
505 sedan, reported in Autocar, around 1980, never read the original caravan magazine report.
 
I suspect that on average, European caravans are considerably lighter, if not smaller than those used by most serious Australian caravanners and thus more suitable for towing behind a four potter. I also suspect that a lot of Australian bitumen surfaced roads would be classified as "dirt" in Europe, requiring our local vans to be designed and constructed for surfaces other than billiard-table smooth highways, being stronger and heavier. So in that regard, the Euro's were happy to drag a van around behind a low powered vehicle at a velocity which caused kilometres of grief for following traffic, thumbing their noses to the other motorists!
 
fritzelhund said:

Back in the day C5s were highly rated by UK caravan users.... the combination of short rear overhang and the self levelling make them safe in dynamic chassis terms. Trouble is the relative lack of power when towing heavy and tall OZ caravans.
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GRAHAM WALLIS said:
I was thinking that myself. Also the rear suspension is a bit soft in the sedan, maybe they were talking about the wagon? My 504 wagon is a brilliant tow car.
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The Citroens have one nearly every "towcar of the year" from the 80's through to the 2000's ..... They are all too light and weeny to tow 99% of aussie 'vans. The only caravan my CX could legally tow would be a 16foot van or smaller from the pre-mid 80's (back when they were light). Or possibly a small european van. the caravan I pictured earlier in this thread is one of my brothers caravans behind my wifes poogoe. This is what is what they are designed for. He just had 1/2dozen fresh european imports that have been sold (at least I think they are all sold).

I'm not sure what Kim is on about with towing speed. My wifes old 407 would have more pulling power than the v8's used to tow big caravans 20years ago. Certainly it probably has more pulling power than my V8 Range Rover. It would easily tow a european caravan at the speed limit.

Power and speed talk is crazy. Towing is about stability. You tow at whatever speed is safe. If you have gale forced winds off the caravan that are causing it to be unhappy ..... and only feel safe at 60km/h ........... 60km/h it is. Who gives a stuff about power and speed. We want "stable"
 
DoubleChevron said:
The Citroens have one nearly every "towcar of the year" from the 80's through to the 2000's ..... They are all too light and weeny to tow 99% of aussie 'vans. The only caravan my CX could legally tow would be a 16foot van or smaller from the pre-mid 80's (back when they were light). Or possibly a small european van. the caravan I pictured earlier in this thread is one of my brothers caravans behind my wifes poogoe. This is what is what they are designed for. He just had 1/2dozen fresh european imports that have been sold (at least I think they are all sold).

I'm not sure what Kim is on about with towing speed. My wifes old 407 would have more pulling power than the v8's used to tow big caravans 20years ago. Certainly it probably has more pulling power than my V8 Range Rover. It would easily tow a european caravan at the speed limit.

Power and speed talk is crazy. Towing is about stability. You tow at whatever speed is safe. If you have gale forced winds off the caravan that are causing it to be unhappy ..... and only feel safe at 60km/h ........... 60km/h it is. Who gives a stuff about power and speed. We want "stable"
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Remember touring the UK on windy back roads in the country, it was not uncommon to join a conga line of traffic extending a considerable distance back from an asthmatic four potter towing a small caravan up hill and down dale at full throttle and 30 mph. Your ridiculous proposal that a V6 of 3 litres would have more pulling power than a 5.5 litre V8, or even a 4 litre six is just that, ridiculous.

Compare the pair; or three,

Peugeot V6 2004: 211 hp, 290Nm

Falcon V8 2004: 295 hp, 490Nm

Falcon 6 Cyl 2004: 244hp, 380Nm

Some of us truck drivers can tell you there is no substitute for grunt in the form of torque when pulling weight so what you are really saying is that in your humble opinion the Pug had an "adequate" towing performance, but with a GVM of 2140 kg it would not be towing 2.5 tonne, or if it was, you should have known better!
 
Kim Luck said:
Remember touring the UK on windy back roads in the country, it was not uncommon to join a conga line of traffic extending a considerable distance back from an asthmatic four potter towing a small caravan up hill and down dale at full throttle and 30 mph. Your ridiculous proposal that a V6 of 3 litres would have more pulling power than a 5.5 litre V8, or even a 4 litre six is just that, ridiculous.

Compare the pair; or three,

Peugeot V6 2004: 211 hp, 290Nm

Falcon V8 2004: 295 hp, 490Nm

Falcon 6 Cyl 2004: 244hp, 380Nm

Some of us truck drivers can tell you there is no substitute for grunt in the form of torque when pulling weight so what you are really saying is that in your humble opinion the Pug had an "adequate" towing performance, but with a GVM of 2140 kg it would not be towing 2.5 tonne, or if it was, you should have known better!
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That's not what my father has said. He reckons the caravans over in Europe would blast past you at insane speeds on the motorways. Have you driven a modern diesel ? There is a reason why almost no-one anywhere tows with a v8 petrol engine. Infact, I'm probably the only one ( 35L/100km anyone ?).

I said nothing about 3litre v6s. 2litres diesels is where its at these days. There is quite a few twin cab ute "tow cars" around these days with a 2litre diesel motor. The 407 here would easily tow that european caravan .... no doubt in the world. And tow it plenty fast enough. Speed is irrelivant, we want stability!
 
Haakon said:
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jo proffi said:
I've managed to tow anything I needed to with any of my Renaults. The r12, the fuego, the r25, rx4 scenic and the Koleos.
But the Koleos is in another league for starters because it is automatic. That alone makes it a no contest to anything (manual) that's come before.
AWD is invaluable at the boat ramp at low tide or on sand.
In a difficult reversing uphill situation, where low speed is a critical component, a manual car, or at least a manual without a low range 1st gear is quite taxing on the clutch. You can smell the dollars!!
Whilst the RX4 was quite capable once you'd cracked your load of from standstill, the gear ratio of first gear was just way off what you want so it was a bit of a tow-car fail.

Whenever I see a massive boat covered in barnacles at the ramp getting dragged onto a huge tri-axle trailer, without exception it is being hauled out by a crusty old dyhatsu dyna tipper.
Now that is a seriously capable tow vehicle, with a great low range first gear, huge brakes and a massive diff, where in any gear, high speed is never going to be a concern!

Jo
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The beach front down around the retire areas near geelong used to have a lot of houses with a tractor for recovering the boat ..... For heavy towing, you want a truck. Most "4wds" are just light rigid trucks by design. next time you get a pretend 4wd, make it one that has a low range transfer case. You won't know yourself ... crawling around and moving trailers and loads.... just throw her in low range :dance:
 
DoubleChevron said:
The beach front down around the retire areas near geelong used to have a lot of houses with a tractor for recovering the boat ..... For heavy towing, you want a truck. Most "4wds" are just light rigid trucks by design. next time you get a pretend 4wd, make it one that has a low range transfer case. You won't know yourself ... crawling around and moving trailers and loads.... just throw her in low range :dance:
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that r5 driver was just dumb. We had similar sight in northern new on return trip from toogoom,a daihatsu terios towing a 20ft 70,s viscount van, big grin on drivers face, not sure whether grin remained for rest of trip...... jim
 
A low ratio transfer case with proper gears not chains is a given for an "agricultural" four wheel drive. But not necessary for a light FWD designed for snow and the muddy park at the gymkhana. Toyota had a low clearance transfer case that made the HiLux very breakable.
The motorist who buys a French SUV is unlikely to be planning a trip to remote parts of the country but is looking for a vehicle with a more practical, user friendly body and a ground clearance closer to what a previous generation of Australian vehicles offered.
 
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DoubleChevron said:
That's not what my father has said. He reckons the caravans over in Europe would blast past you at insane speeds on the motorways. Have you driven a modern diesel ? There is a reason why almost no-one anywhere tows with a v8 petrol engine. Infact, I'm probably the only one ( 35L/100km anyone ?).

I said nothing about 3litre v6s. 2litres diesels is where its at these days. There is quite a few twin cab ute "tow cars" around these days with a 2litre diesel motor. The 407 here would easily tow that european caravan .... no doubt in the world. And tow it plenty fast enough. Speed is irrelivant, we want stability!
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2004 Peugeot 407 2l diesel specs: 136 hp, 320 Nm. Hardly a fireball. Pretty much the same output as a Koleos diesel - 6speed auto.
 
The new 3008 offers an approach angle of 20 degrees and an excellent 219 mm ground clearance. Good figures. Not designed for serious off road use but the owner can safely go down minor dirt roads and meeting a table drain or washaway will present no dramas. Very practical for Australia. Contrast with the lack of clearance of their sedans. But it won't sell because it's premium priced and dealers are a rarity. Phillipe Imperato the past CEO of Peugeot said Peugeot was not a premium brand but at the top of the mainstream. He defined Peugeot as being priced at Volkswagen levels but seeking the sales of Renault. A pricing philosophy not followed in Australia.
 
....or Canada and the USA - the 405 was the last model sold here and the ads for that model (basically a French Mondeo or Vectra) was pitched against BMWs and Volvos. Umm no.
 
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