Some mention in the press of a Nissan Narvara Peugeot produces in a Chinese factory for Third World markets and mention of consideration of converting to RHD for Australia. Why? A pig with lipstick is still a pig. A Chinese ute with a Peugeot badge is still a Chinses ute and would destroy what credibility the make has left in Australia.
Peugeot Utility
- Thread starter Russell Hall
- Start date
The list looks bit short
Three points.
The Nissan Navara is not a well respected design. Not everybody appreciated $17000 engine replacements at relatively low mileages and a modular replacement system where complete units are replaced. Which is why $10k + discounts are common to move them.
Second is the lack of satisfaction with Chinese made utilities and larger industrial units that results in poor resale value for good reason. It is possible to produce quality products in China so long as every aspect of the material supply and production system is rigorously supervised by your own people. Corruption is a part of Chinese industrial production. So from Blundstone boots to Ryco filters we are told they are of Australian quality and they clearly are not. Left to their own devices Chinese products can be ok but sometimes almost comically bad. When taking delivery of a Chinese tractor remember to collect the bolts and parts that have fallen out onto the truck deck. Beware the importer who brings out one shipment of something from China and disappears.
Thirdly these products are produced in low wage factories in poor working conditions not seen in our country for a century. They should be incredibly cheap but they are not. Makers treat consumers like fools - they are paying little on production but still charging high prices for the products. Mark ups of sometimes tenfold or more. So a Chinese ute should have a Chinese price in Australia but it won't.
But Chinese goods are tempting - sometimes many times cheaper than Australian made products. When buying a tractor mounted post hole digger to replace a 40 year old NZ unit, I was offered a Chinese unit for a third less than the Australian. I bought Australian and was rewarded with a high quality unit with a sticker saying the employees in Dandenong thanked me for investing in a quality Australian made implement. Enough said.
The Nissan Navara is not a well respected design. Not everybody appreciated $17000 engine replacements at relatively low mileages and a modular replacement system where complete units are replaced. Which is why $10k + discounts are common to move them.
Second is the lack of satisfaction with Chinese made utilities and larger industrial units that results in poor resale value for good reason. It is possible to produce quality products in China so long as every aspect of the material supply and production system is rigorously supervised by your own people. Corruption is a part of Chinese industrial production. So from Blundstone boots to Ryco filters we are told they are of Australian quality and they clearly are not. Left to their own devices Chinese products can be ok but sometimes almost comically bad. When taking delivery of a Chinese tractor remember to collect the bolts and parts that have fallen out onto the truck deck. Beware the importer who brings out one shipment of something from China and disappears.
Thirdly these products are produced in low wage factories in poor working conditions not seen in our country for a century. They should be incredibly cheap but they are not. Makers treat consumers like fools - they are paying little on production but still charging high prices for the products. Mark ups of sometimes tenfold or more. So a Chinese ute should have a Chinese price in Australia but it won't.
But Chinese goods are tempting - sometimes many times cheaper than Australian made products. When buying a tractor mounted post hole digger to replace a 40 year old NZ unit, I was offered a Chinese unit for a third less than the Australian. I bought Australian and was rewarded with a high quality unit with a sticker saying the employees in Dandenong thanked me for investing in a quality Australian made implement. Enough said.
I share your feelings, but we must remember that PSA is a part Chinese company.
One thing I have noticed - around here flats are going up on every corner, and a large proportion of the workforce is Chinese. Most speak no English and are probably on temporary visas. When they buy trade vehicles new they are invariably imports from China, so they seem to trust their own products.
One thing I have noticed - around here flats are going up on every corner, and a large proportion of the workforce is Chinese. Most speak no English and are probably on temporary visas. When they buy trade vehicles new they are invariably imports from China, so they seem to trust their own products.
Yep, seems to be a new Chinese version of the Marshall plan, create debt by offering help and then get the right to exclusively sell all sorts of things on the new long march to economic domination if that hopefully grows your own economy as you control markets, is the quality control there, probably not. Who ends up with all the property? Depends upon the belt and bridges success story, dragons eat small prey..
I was surprised to find out the Mercedes Benz X350d 4-matic was based on the Navara...it gets up around just under $90k.
https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/mercedes-benz-x-class-x350d-2018-120628
https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/mercedes-benz-x-class-x350d-2018-120628
And yet a 4x4 Navara tray could have been had for $27k driveaway earlier this year.
Yeah, but what would it cost with the rest of the vehicle thrown in? Ha ha ha.
No, I checked them out and they were indeed complete with all their wheels but I still gave it a miss. Of course production cost of those Thai built utes is low and they are an absolute money tree for the car companies.
Mitsubishi were selling a lot of 4x4 twin cabs for sub $30k at the time. The makers seem to discount prices by up to $10k in the sector when it suits.
Mitsubishi were selling a lot of 4x4 twin cabs for sub $30k at the time. The makers seem to discount prices by up to $10k in the sector when it suits.
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It is a larger vehicle than the Navarra, also comes with a V6 and Mercedes 4-motion driveline, so being a Benz it should cost more.......
My point was that I was surprised Benz used it, not the price. They look the same size to me BTW. When comparing are you looking at the current Navara dual cab ute?
My Master has the 2.3 M9T diesel shared via the Alliance with the Navara. Should I be worried? It has pulled a 4.5 tonne motorhome 36,000 kms without a problem.
Work vehicles get reputations among people who use them for a living. Particular model years of particular makes have bad reputations. Like the 2003 Rodeo or 2009 BT50 or 2012 Amarok. Certain models disappear quickly from the trade fleets. It's not to say every example suffers the same failure. But Navara engines like Mazda gearboxes have a bad reputation. None of them are engineered for ease of maintenance. Trying to keep them ten years is a mistake.
It's a matter of millimetres: the X-Class is 85 mm longer and 70 mm wider than the Navara, and is never bought by the Western Districts land barons...
So it's the same size then. That's just trim; bigger bumpers, wider arches. They are clearly the same vehicle when you look at them.
Just to add to the above comments, I do know of two people with the earlier Navara (about 2 gens ago?) that reckon they're not up to much. Actually, I get the impression that Nissan has lost some credibility in the ute and 4WD arena, especially since they put that 3 litre four in the Patrol. I'm just going on speaking to owners around the place; I've only driven one Nissan 4WD, a 90's patrol with the 4.2 diesel, and I thought it was really good...
Just to add to the above comments, I do know of two people with the earlier Navara (about 2 gens ago?) that reckon they're not up to much. Actually, I get the impression that Nissan has lost some credibility in the ute and 4WD arena, especially since they put that 3 litre four in the Patrol. I'm just going on speaking to owners around the place; I've only driven one Nissan 4WD, a 90's patrol with the 4.2 diesel, and I thought it was really good...
All Japanese 4WD's and utes have deficiencies and are not your friend in the workshop. Which is why it is disappointing that Euro makers should base their design on Japanese work vehicles rather than producing something better.
The truly wealthy do not need to posture by driving over priced "prestige" vehicles. A certain landholder eying Kidman's record for the area of Australia owned is observed driving a shabby old HiLux around his many properties.
The truly wealthy do not need to posture by driving over priced "prestige" vehicles. A certain landholder eying Kidman's record for the area of Australia owned is observed driving a shabby old HiLux around his many properties.
You appear to have a problem with comprehension, or maybe are dimensionally challenged! Those of us that went to school understand that 1 mm is "bigger" than 0 mm, therefore, the dimensions of the XL350d are bigger than those of a Navarra...just saying from the point of view of "automobile correctness".....
Russell, you are welcome to try out a G-Wagen cab chassis or perhaps go upmarket and get yourself a Unimog of any description. Either have qualities that a Hilux owner could only dream of as standard. They also have some great options for the man on the land.......:wink2:
The Unimog is proper Euro design, based on Steyr technology which in turn links back to Hans Ledwinka and Tatra. Like the NATO jeep produced by a number of Euro makers. Which is why it's a disappointment to see Euro makers basing vehicles on Japanese platforms. And expecting price premiums.