Peugeot 508 - CAN issues + engine test

melon

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jun 9, 2016
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56
Location
Brisbane
Hi everyone,

So i bought another Peugeot 508 2.0 HDI SW Late 2011 recently, unseen ( i currently own a 508 HDi sedan), thought id give my self a mini project, quite the mystery box surprise. Quite a nice car actually, with the moon roof, electric tailgate, heated seats, etc.

So the issues;

1. It had a dead battery on arrival so alot of warning and flashing signs.
2. and apparently had some mechanical issue.

First thing i did was disconnect battery, and put it on charge. I did notice it is a 600CCA battery which by doing a bit of searching, it appears and under capacity or close to dead battery can cause CAN issues with the ECU's

Second thing was checking the dipstick...and finding that it is snapped...not looking good. using my dipstick from my car, found out some idiot (hopefully not a mech) had filled the oil up to the broken piece. Not looking good so far. bought some new oil and filter and drained it to find close to 10L of oil in there....INSANE haha.

Fit the battery back on and went through all the codes with diagbox, most of them are just because the battery was dead and went away. All electrics working fine, which is good. It was also low on diesel so needed to fill it a bit and prime the pump.

It started which is a good sign, although it has issues, which is where maybe some insight might help.

It currently starts but wont pass 1,500 revs and smokes a little. I expect a bit of smoke due to having 10L of oil in it and that residue will be everywhere...perhaps more than residue, yet to find out.

secondly there are some fault codes which wont disappear, they are mainly Uxxx codes that show theres a CAN issue, perhaps with battery capacity or faulty relay. The ECU codes wont clear at all which is strange.

The main codes that i think are due to what im seeing are;

B162C 11 on the BSI "fault:accesories positive relay control and status not coherent
P1727 on TCU " Fault on the actual engine torque information not received by the CAN (engine ECU)
P1605 on TCU engine torque required by the driver information not received by the CAN fault (engine ECU)
P0215 on ECU " Main Relay" Poor operation of relay, ecu is not supplied as it should be
P16A0 on ECU "Motor" detection of iol separation after cutting out....this is due to the 10L but it has been drained and correctly filled, should this not go away?

So seeing it as a potential low power or battery issue, I took the battery from my current 508 (750cca) and the engine fuse relay (hot swap able one) and put it in the car. The same codes showed up after being cleared. The only thing that i might test again, is to fully charge the 750CCA batt and try again.

I have checked all fuses on the engine relay box (i didnt check the ones over the batt though, not sure if they would be the issue), box under driver side, havent fully gotten to the BSI fuses as its a pain, taking that glovebox out...oh man...

My next attempt will be to swap the TCU as previous experience with the 307 HDi 2.0L a bad TCU causes a CAN nightmare.

I want to do a compression test to rule out complete engine failure, I am having trouble finding a correct glow plug adapter for this though. most of the sets only have an m10 x 1 or m12 x 1. These take an M8 x 1 glow plug... any ideas? or way to get an adapter cheap?

Also, what is the easiest way to test for exhaust blockage? this is in regards to the engine not revving passed 1,500 rpm. Checking diagbox the DPF sits at around 33 and when revved to 1,500 it goes to 45 ish. that shows that the DPF isnt blocked?

In regards to the relay fault codes, if i swapped the engine bay relay box and it didn't fix it, what else could it be?

And finally, any other suggestions? and am i heading in the right track? Cheers
 
[FONT=&quot]Update **[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So have tried, swapping the TCU from my other 508 HDi to try and solve the possible comms issue. No luck, it's not a faulty TCU.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It seems to be the systems aren't detecting either TCU or the engine ecu is not communicating with the TCU so throws the handbrake codes esp codes pretty quick along with fault gearbox[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It's also weird why I can't clear any fault on the ECU with diagbox v7.83 but can do it on my other 508 HDi.[/FONT]

[FONT=segoe ui, helvetica neue, Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, fira sans, droid sans, sans-serif]have also since, checked all fuses on the BSi and checked correct placement. Only the cigar lighter fuse was blown. Re-checked engine compartment box again, and checked for correct location.

Since i can't clear the engine ecu codes, im thinking it is a fault with the ECU potentially? I might try another battery to rule out 100% that it isnt a weak battery (my other 508 could have a low batt)

Is there a way to test the ECU and or BSi?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cheers[/FONT]
 
Melon

Does it look like anyone has tried to replace the gearbox or maybe valve body and left a cable disconnected or damaged?

Engine ecu check for water ingress at connector ecu end.

Accessory relay may just be the towbar not sure

Since car runs does PP2000 live data capture any data from TCU?

Sounds like your mini project may take a bit more time to get back on the road.

Keep us all updated.


Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app
 
i had a 508 turbo diesel for a while - enjoyed it a lot but:

- the auto gear box started getting stuck in gear if on full auto (so i used it in manual mode, which didn't cause the same issue) - got some fault codes due to this but mechanic (a Pug mech) couldn't clear them - his best advice was to change oil in the box every couple of years (even though Pug says don't touch the box)
- 2xelec windows failed ---> $$$ and some "negative thoughts" about Pugs in general (i recovered)

Great driving cars - good luck
 
Thanks for the reply guys.

So i've seen a few threads/vids regarding the battery relay/fuses that sit on top of the battery causing issues with voltage supply to BSi , etc.

Swapped it over from the working 508, and the B162C 11 error is no longer showing. Potentially a relay is damaged? I checked all those fuses as well. Unfortunately, the the ecu still wont clear fault codes and i still have the same issue.

tried to swap over main engine fuse box and bigger batt along with the new battery relay/fuses and still nothing.

Had a quick look just before, it looks fine to me, the torx screws look good and not worn, the cables are still tied down. I dont think its had a gbox replacement.

The drivers fuse box is mainly accessories rather than central components. It does have a few relays, but i dont think they would be going to the ECU? BSi?

Yeah i can get live date from the TCU, the RPM and stuff and temps

Checking the BSi identification in daigbox by vin is coded against it. Plus if it weren't i wouldn't be able to start?

First thing i did with my other 508 is flush the gbox completely haha. Not a fan of filled for life tbh. and yes this project 508 has two rear window regs that have failed haha. Not too worried about that, i believe those little kits should do the trick.

Cheers
 
Looks to be associated with valve body if TCU is picking up torque issues.

Maybe a stuck solenoid inside?

This is when the auto experts need to jump in[emoji53]

Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app
 
There was a 407 with EW12J4 Engine and 4HP20 automatic gearbox that had similar issue. The automatic gearbox refused to shift beyond gear 3 (no fault found on Transmission ECU). However, found some faults on Engine ECU which refused to erase (and components reported faulty were in good Conditions).

Eventually the Engine ECU was replaced. The faults registered on earlier ECU never came back and Transmission started shifting properly from gear 1 to 4.

What killed the former engine ECU was some wiring wrong connections/bypass done on BSM/engine bay fuse box, which were reversed before the ECU was replaced.

Ikenna351, Lion King - Monk.
 
Is there a way to test or check that there could be a potential solenoid issue using the live data?

Also in regards to the ECU is there a way to test to see if it is faulty? being unable to clear codes isn't a good sign but just to be sure? Can the dealerships test ECU's?

seems very strange that the ecu cannot be cleared.
 
Is there a way to test or check that there could be a potential solenoid issue using the live data?

Also in regards to the ECU is there a way to test to see if it is faulty? being unable to clear codes isn't a good sign but just to be sure? Can the dealerships test ECU's?

seems very strange that the ecu cannot be cleared.

That the faults refused to be cleared in Engine ECU doesn't necessarily mean the ECU is faulty. It could be caused by other factors.

Disconnect and reconnect all wiring plugs on BSI unit, BSM, engine ECU, Transmission ECU, ABS ECU/pump, engine sensors and any wiring connector you can access in Engine bay. It might fixed it.

Ikenna351, Lion King - Monk.
 
That the faults refused to be cleared in Engine ECU doesn't necessarily mean the ECU is faulty. It could be caused by other factors.

Disconnect and reconnect all wiring plugs on BSI unit, BSM, engine ECU, Transmission ECU, ABS ECU/pump, engine sensors and any wiring connector you can access in Engine bay. It might fixed it.

Ikenna351, Lion King - Monk.

Most of the main connections to the BSi, BSM, ECU, TCU , Central power/battery relay/fuse were disconnected and re-connected. Will have a closer look at the ABS ECU and other sensors and disconnect and re-connect. None of the connections had any signs of corrosion or damage.


I'd check all the reset circuit wiring.
And confirm reset signal is actually reaching the ECU .

Excuse my incompetence, not sure what the reset circuit wiring is. I tried to check SEDRE and the ECU wiring for reset signal etc couldn't find it. Would this be the signal going from the central power unit to ecu to fusebox? or between the ecu, ignition and central power unit?

Cheers
 
Update;

Decided just to give another ECU (that has been cloned) a go. Same issue, unfortunately.

Had a bit more in depth look at the wiring, the ECU does get power supply, a little to test all wiring to and from ecu. Im assuming wiring is fine, as i cant see any corrosion

Dont know why I didn't see this the first time, but I have now (prob would've saved me a cloned ecu cost). Anyway, The ECU shows up as locked (diagbox > reading parameters > immobiliser) which is why i can't clear any codes.

Normally this would prevent starting right? Reading up a bit, is it possible that the BSi has lost some of the key data and i should re-learn the key to the car again?

key open and closes doors

Is there a way to obtain the pin code without the dealers?

Could it be data corruption in the BSi?

Cheers guys
 
So further update when ive had time again.

1.The immo codes match on original ECU and BSi and key can be reporgrammed wtihout fault.
2. I bought a donor BSi and swapped the eeprogm over and tested to see if the immo codes match in diagbox (immo codes match)
3. The same issue where the ECU is locked with ignition on but engine off is there. Car will still start.
4. The working 508 HDi that ive been using to help diagnose has been running this car's BSM and Battery fuse module fine for a while (this car is using the working cars BSM and (Battery fuse module). The working 508 HDi recently had a dead battery (i think due to old age, its been in the car a while) Replaced battery and ran a diagbox scan to find very similar codes such as the P0215 - main relay and the ecu being locked with ignition on but engine off. Is this normal for these cars. I have read somewhere that this particular code could clear on its own with driving? is that correct? Could both BSM (engine bay relays) be damaged?? id find that pretty unlikely?
5. Car start but is stuck at 1500rpm.
6. Opened throttle body and found quite a bit of oil...probably blown turbo based on my initial find with engine oil filled up so high and the earlier engine fault codes. I have disconnected the intake tubing and let the car run but it still smokes. Is this residual oil left inside? Theres no new oil entering intake anymore??? Could the EGR have some residual oil in the tubing?
7. Car has vacuum observed the EGR vacuum plunger and air mixer plunger working. Havent checked the turbo vacuum solenoid yet.
8. Is a potentially damaged turbo the cause of the car being limited to 1500rpm? What else would be limiting it free revving? Before i sink money into a new turbo just wanting to find out if there may be other things that could be damaged. Is there anything i should look for in the live data?

Thanks
 
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