Peugeot 203 wagon

[artisan]

Hi,

My neighbour has asked me to try and get an idea what their 203 wagon is worth. It will regretfully have to be sold after the sad death of her husband.

I believe they are only the second owners and have had the car since 1978.
It is completely original and comes with lots of spare parts and lots of documentation.

Hoping someone will give an honest opinion of it's true value.

I can take some photos if this helps.

 

[Peter C]

Photos would help quite a bit.

 

[Steven King]

Anything from scrap to $10,000, depending, so photos kind of a necessity. Provenance being good, is it on original rego plates and does it include the engine it was born with, does it move at all / roadworthy. Is it unmolested or even undamaged?

 

[robmac]

Anything from scrap to $10,000, depending, so photos kind of a necessity. Provenance being good, is it on original rego plates and does it include the engine it was born with, does it move at all / roadworthy. Is it unmolested or even undamaged?

I know the the vehicle too. I went to school with the now deceased owner.

AFAIK it's absolutely complete, down to the wiper manual crank handle and tools.

It's had a good respray in Cream enamel many years ago. And the body is straight and pretty well unblemished.

The interior is in good condition depending on your opinion.

It has the original engine which is tired.

The brakes need reconditioning : they were fully recoed some 25 years - I helped the owner at that time. It was drivable at that time: I drove it up Mount Dandy where our families had a picnic.

There is rust in bottom of the inner sills - but generally much less rust that most 203s.

It will come with a spare diff, front end and quite a few other parts.

It still bears the original number plates.

It would make a terrific starting point for an original restoration.

EDIT 1: It's a 203c wagon.

EDIT 2 : I think there is an OEM roof rack too.

 

[Steven King]

Commerciale would be the best judge of things like these but based on that, absent photos, a ballpark of 2 to 5 or 6?

 

[robmac]

Commerciale would be the best judge of things like these but based on that, absent photos, a ballpark of 2 to 5 or 6?

My estimate would be $3k-$5k, however I'm quite out touch these days. And have only seen the vehicle under a dust cover recently.

It's been dry stored most of it's life. And it's definitely not a rusted wreck like many 203s offered for sale.

I agree that Commerciale is probably well situated to give a price estimate.

 

[Commerciale]

My estimate would be $3k-$5k, however I'm quite out touch these days. And have only seen the vehicle under a dust cover recently.

It's been dry stored most of it's life. And it's definitely not a rusted wreck like many 203s offered for sale.

I agree that Commerciale is probably well situated to give a price estimate.

Firstly, if it has tail lights and number plate mounted on the tailgate it's a C5, not a 203C. These are the more common of the wagons in Australia - not that wagons are that common. I'd love to see detailed photos. The description "some rust" is a bit of a worry as the true extent is probably only evident when the sills are removed and a careful inspection in other places such as the front subframe. In short, it's worth exactly what someone will pay or is willing to spend on restoration. A full job is in the order of $20,000 so my two cents worth is that around $2-3,000 would be a good starting point (subject to inspection).

Tony

 

[Dano]

In the main, I agree with what Tony has said/stated. 20K (With a lot of work done by yourself included) will get you are good top to bottom resto. However, if you wanted to keep the patina look, it would come in a lot less. The original plates are a bonus if its being kept in Victoria. Be lovely to see it kept in it's original condition (203 originality) and added to the dwindling list of genuine unmodified 203's. Original (NOS) 203 gearbox,diff and motor parts are still available if your are prepared to spend some time searching European web sites. In my option, something old and rare should be kept in it's original condition. No matter what it is...

 

[Commerciale]

In the main, I agree with what Tony has said/stated. 20K (With a lot of work done by yourself included) will get you are good top to bottom resto. However, if you wanted to keep the patina look, it would come in a lot less. The original plates are a bonus if its being kept in Victoria. Be lovely to see it kept in it's original condition (203 originality) and added to the dwindling list of genuine unmodified 203's. Original (NOS) 203 gearbox,diff and motor parts are still available if your are prepared to spend some time searching European web sites. In my option, something old and rare should be kept in it's original condition. No matter what it is...

OK Dan, but if this a tired vehicle which has been sitting for some time it will take a certain amount of money and work to get it back on the road. Without seeing photos an initial estimate would be a motor (pistons and sleeves, bearings head welding and hard valve seats, timing chain, clutch etc) - $3,000, brakes relined with new cylinders etc - $1,200, suspension bushes $300, door seals and miscellaneous rubber - $600, tyres $700 minimum, batteries $300, rust repairs and paint if not done by self - $1,000. This totals $7,100 or around eight grand if you include other miscellaneous expenditure. For that you will get a mobile vehicle which will continue to crumble around you and will always have niggling faults and electrical gremlins. Not to mention crook paint!

 

[Dano]

So what is it worth? Without out photos or better still a first hand inspection. it is all academic about what it is worth. A good indicator or yardstick, would be to see what price something like this is fetching in Europe. A quick search found these examples of 3 wagons ranging in price from 2000 - 3000 Euros. All needing restoration. Now on current exchange rates that equates to around $2099 - $4648. On the assumption that the said car in Victoria is in better condition it would/could be worth more. Once fully restored it would be worth a lot more. Mind you though, I don't know of anyone who has restored a car for passion, then having to sell it for what it actually cost to restore.


An average looking 203 on the same site, is being sold for around 7000-8000 Euros ($10847 - 12296) These figures are more then what current 203's are being sold for in Australia. Maybe it might be worth advertising it in France. As Mike Tippet stated on another forum recently, investors are looking for alternatives.


The following was written first, so there is a litlle double up in comments...


I am with Tony . If you're going to repair one of these fine cars, it should be done properly.
It isn't had to rack up the dollars and well past the current market value, which unfortunately is always being talked down. I think, that if one wants to sell their older PUGS etc, they may need to test the open market, rather than the closed club market. Before I am shot down in flames, this is not aimed at anyone, just mussing aloud. The same thing happens within other marque clubs.

Normally, I do not disclose what I have spent on either the 404 and 203, but to help put some validity to what these things can cost, the 203 (Belle) owes me around 8K to date. 1.5K of this amount is attributed to freight charges alone. The body, interior and motor haven't been touched yet. But I do have a relatively extensive store of NOS stock waiting in storage. I admit that I am endeavouring to restore both cars back to their original showroom condition.

As for rust/body damage, it still bothers me what lies below, even though I spent considerable time crawling over and under her prior to purchase.

Cheers,

Dano

 

[robmac]

I could arrange some images.

However I don't want to take the thread away from artisan. Best to let him post the images.

I can tell everyone the body is dead straight and enamel still in acceptably good condition. The bumpers are in good nick too.

Rust is always "the elephant in the room" and nothing but a personal inspection by the prospective purchaser will find a satisfactory answer.

However, based on the law of averages, since the vehicle has been dry stored for most of last 40 years It's a fair guess that the rust situation is better than many other equivalent vehicles currently for Sale.

And it's never been modified or "improved on" in any way.

When I last saw it with the dust cover removed, a couple of years ago, the dash, steering wheel and column switches were intact and fully operational.

 

[Dano]

Whoops, forgot to add the link for the wagons as mentioned.

https://www.lesanciennes.com/lecture.php?search=peugeot+203

So what is it worth? Without out photos or better still a first hand inspection. it is all academic about what it is worth. A good indicator or yardstick, would be to see what price something like this is fetching in Europe. A quick search found these examples of 3 wagons ranging in price from 2000 - 3000 Euros. All needing restoration. Now on current exchange rates that equates to around $2099 - $4648. On the assumption that the said car in Victoria is in better condition it would/could be worth more. Once fully restored it would be worth a lot more. Mind you though, I don't know of anyone who has restored a car for passion, then having to sell it for what it actually cost to restore.


An average looking 203 on the same site, is being sold for around 7000-8000 Euros ($10847 - 12296) These figures are more then what current 203's are being sold for in Australia. Maybe it might be worth advertising it in France. As Mike Tippet stated on another forum recently, investors are looking for alternatives.


The following was written first, so there is a litlle double up in comments...


I am with Tony . If you're going to repair one of these fine cars, it should be done properly.
It isn't had to rack up the dollars and well past the current market value, which unfortunately is always being talked down. I think, that if one wants to sell their older PUGS etc, they may need to test the open market, rather than the closed club market. Before I am shot down in flames, this is not aimed at anyone, just mussing aloud. The same thing happens within other marque clubs.

Normally, I do not disclose what I have spent on either the 404 and 203, but to help put some validity to what these things can cost, the 203 (Belle) owes me around 8K to date. 1.5K of this amount is attributed to freight charges alone. The body, interior and motor haven't been touched yet. But I do have a relatively extensive store of NOS stock waiting in storage. I admit that I am endeavouring to restore both cars back to their original showroom condition.

As for rust/body damage, it still bothers me what lies below, even though I spent considerable time crawling over and under her prior to purchase.

Cheers,

Dano

 

[artisan]

My neighbour wanted to thank everyone who contributed to the thread.
Here are photos taken this morning.

 

[Dano]

Wow, If only I had the time and space!! Certainly looks better than the three in my recent thread. I truly hope they get a fair price for it.

 

[Commerciale]

With due consideration of my previous caveats I would be comfortable paying $3,500 in this condition. Your neighbor should ask $4,500 and have a little room to move. Tempting but who need two of them?

 

[robmac]

Wow, If only I had the time and space!! Certainly looks better than the three in my recent thread. I truly hope they get a fair price for it.

Of course you have room....

I can't think of a better person to bring it back to pristine condition.

And I'm sure Carl, the ex owner would approve too. A long illness and slow decline in health prevented him pursuing his "dream" .

 

[neil s]

Someone please buy it to save what looks like such a good one. So rare.

 

[robmac]

I wouldn't be too sure it's " on the market" on AF at this stage.

If it was mine, I would see the valuation as quite low commensurate, with rarity, originality and condition.

Not to mention the stash of spares to be sold with it.

IMO there is unlikely to be an un-restored 203 Wagon in similar condition vehicle available in Australia or elsewhere for that matter.

It's well and good to focus on the likely restoration costs. However buying a vehicle in such good condition in the first place mitigates many of these costs.

Those who are genuinely interested had better get in contact with preferably artisan or even myself via Pm.

Before someone outside AF makes a better offer.

And I make no excuses for wanting to get the best outcome for Carl's widow.

 

[Dano]

Well spoken/written Robmac.

Genuine original 203s are rare, let alone a wagon. In my humble opinion, coupled with what I've seen and read, I think less than four grand would be stealing it. Not sure where else you could pick up a complete resto project with all those spares for that money. And yes, you are right about starting with a good base model. It does reduce much of the associated resto costs.

The beauty of restoring a 203 is that there is nowhere near as many items/components as a 404 or similar. They are a very uncomplicated vehicle, but a classic at the same time. There are not as many multi-layered hidden panels around the chassis to conceal rust either. Sure you my find some, but it isn't hard to re-fabricate these sections. The body panels in these old cars is at least 1&1/2 times thicker than in the 404.

It would be a shame to see it turned into just another old Pug running another models running gear... Originality does matter.

Dano

 

[robmac]

If it were me :

I'd recondition the brakes (I believe the cylinders have stainless steel sleeves already.)If not it's not a major expense.
Fit a set of new tyres
Refresh the engine .
Fix a bit of rust.
Fit a new steering flector
Replace the batteries
Spray up to the original enamel to clean up the body
And do some other quite minor work.
And drive it as is.


The only question in my mind is condition of shockers and suspension bushes, however at an original
62,000 miles (98, 000 kilometers) they should be OK.

Think about a full resto at a later date after enjoying the original car for a while.

And any money you spend now is not wasted.