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Frans

Frans

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Hi All. The Matra has been on the road for a few years and I noticed that the temperature was climbing a little. Eventually it got to a point where the fan would not turn off any more.
I removed it today and tried to look into it with a flexible camera. I couldn’t see much but it was clear that the bottom half was clogged up with a slimy rust deposit.
Very happy with at least a possible cause, it will sent in for a strip and clean.
What I would like to do is to flush the engine block to prevent any sludge blocking the radiator again.
Can anyone recommend a concoction of some chemicals that I can use to clean the engine block? I was thinking in the line of vinegar, baking soda that can react with the rust and neutralise it or better still get rid of it.
Regards. Frans.
 
Do you want to dismantle the block (best) or just flush it?
 
I've used oxalic acid with good success, but you normally put that in the cooling system and go for a good drive.
Not sure what you'd used for a static flush.🤔
 
Frans, what a coincidence. I just ordered this product yesterday to clean up the radiator in the Alconi. I have used some of his other products with great results. I discussed using it in the Alconi (1400 R12 motor) and had a long talk with Peter (company owner/inventor) before placing the order.

He has many years experience and can answer any technical questions you have, will pick up the phone when you call, Au time 7 am to 7 pm 7 days a week.

https://liquidintelligence.com.au/products/engine-cooling-system-cleaning-kit
 
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Bustamif said:
Frans, what a coincidence. I just ordered this product yesterday to clean up the radiator in the Alconi. I have used some of his other products with great results. I discussed using it in the Alconi (1400 R12 motor) and had a long talk with Peter (company owner/inventor) before placing the order.

He has many years experience and can answer any technical questions you have, will pick up the phone when you call, Au time 7 am to 7 pm 7 days a week.

https://liquidintelligence.com.au/products/engine-cooling-system-cleaning-kit
Click to expand...
I have used the Liquid Intelligence product with good results. I do, however, suggest a preliminary flush with a mild detergent to get rid of any oil from the system. Chemical cleaning is the only way of cleaning all heat transfer surfaces. There are heat transfer surfaces within the head which are very difficult or impossible to clean by other means. Also, you need to prevent this happening again by using the correct coolant, containing a competent corrosion inhibitor.
 
jo proffi said:
Dont forget the old nylon stocking in the top hose trick.
Click to expand...
Thank you all for the info. I have plenty to do and rig some plumbing tricks and methods up because the radiator is already out and I can’t run the car.

Okay Jo, I’ll go for the carrot swinging in front of me. Only stocking story I know of is the fan belt replacement. Tell me more.
Frans.
 
schlitzaugen said:
No experience here but if it is an aluminium block I would avoid oxalic because it is alkaline and it will atack Aliminium.
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Only if you leave it in there.
I've done system's that have full aluminium block, head and radiator with oxalic acid, with no subsequent problems.
Do your oxalic acid cleaning cycle, flush, then do a cycle with baking soda as a neutraliser, flush a few more times, coolant in, job done.
 
schlitzaugen said:
Hmmmmph.
Click to expand...
I'm not twisting anyone's arm here, the OP merely asked for options that people had tried.🤷‍♂️

This is an interesting article on oxalic acid and it uses on different metals.
As it states "avoid prolonged expose to aluminium".

shop.hdchemicals.co.uk

The Power of Oxalic Acid: A Guide to Metal Cleaning and Polishing

When it comes to restoring the luster of metal surfaces, one substance stands out for its remarkable effectiveness: oxalic acid. This versatile chemical compound is widely used in the realm of metal cleaning and polishing, delivering impressive results. In this blog post, we will delve into the...
shop.hdchemicals.co.uk shop.hdchemicals.co.uk
 
Greenpeace said:
I'm not twisting anyone's arm here, the OP merely asked for options that people had tried.🤷‍♂️

This is an interesting article on oxalic acid and it uses on different metals.
As it states "avoid prolonged expose to aluminium".

shop.hdchemicals.co.uk

The Power of Oxalic Acid: A Guide to Metal Cleaning and Polishing

When it comes to restoring the luster of metal surfaces, one substance stands out for its remarkable effectiveness: oxalic acid. This versatile chemical compound is widely used in the realm of metal cleaning and polishing, delivering impressive results. In this blog post, we will delve into the...
shop.hdchemicals.co.uk shop.hdchemicals.co.uk
Click to expand...
The kit from Liquid Intelligence contains scale consuming acid which has been buffered to prevent significant corrosion of base metal, be it cast iron, aluminium, or copper alloys. Why would you experiment with other reagents?
 
harrisonati said:
The kit from Liquid Intelligence contains scale consuming acid which has been buffered to prevent significant corrosion of base metal, be it cast iron, aluminium, or copper alloys. Why would you experiment with other reagents?
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Hey look its great you are happy with that product.

I guess with the other methods though, how many times do you try it successfully before it is no longer deemed an "experiment"?
How many times have you used that LI product yourself?

Over on the RR/Bentley forum there's bad news around using a certain brand of product with their wet liner engines.

The term 'snake oil' pops up on the Stag forum.

Sounds like this subject is a bit like the threads on engine oils and tyres, it's probably best to agree to disagree.


Screenshot_20251119_171625_Chrome.jpg
 
Greenpeace said:
I'm not twisting anyone's arm here, the OP merely asked for options that people had tried.🤷‍♂️

This is an interesting article on oxalic acid and it uses on different metals.
As it states "avoid prolonged expose to aluminium".

shop.hdchemicals.co.uk

The Power of Oxalic Acid: A Guide to Metal Cleaning and Polishing

When it comes to restoring the luster of metal surfaces, one substance stands out for its remarkable effectiveness: oxalic acid. This versatile chemical compound is widely used in the realm of metal cleaning and polishing, delivering impressive results. In this blog post, we will delve into the...
shop.hdchemicals.co.uk shop.hdchemicals.co.uk
Click to expand...

The problem with Aluminium is twofold.

One, we never know exactly what alloy it is. Big differences.

Two, alkaline corrosion in Aluminium is like rust in steel. You can slow it down but you're never sure it stopped.

You say you used it successfully, and I do not doubt that. Unfortunately, due to the above, you never know what would happen next time.

To answer your question about when an experiment stops being an experiment, have a look at space flight. Chemistry is pretty much like that.
 
There is nothing experimental about oxalic acid descaling of ferrous metal.
 
Frans said:
Okay Jo, I’ll go for the carrot swinging in front of me. Only stocking story I know of is the fan belt replacement. Tell me more.
Frans.
Click to expand...
You grab the foot section of a nylon stocking and fit it into the top hose however is the best fit, to act as a net to catch any larger bits of scale.
It's remarkably simple but very effective, and assuming you have a decent amount of it in the hose, can collect a large amount of crud before there is any significant retardation of coolant flow. Obviously you'd check it regularly.



Here is a random forum I found with images....You get the idea in pictures.
 
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Frans said:
Thank you all for the info. I have plenty to do and rig some plumbing tricks and methods up because the radiator is already out and I can’t run the car.

Okay Jo, I’ll go for the carrot swinging in front of me. Only stocking story I know of is the fan belt replacement. Tell me more.
Frans.
Click to expand...
There are ways of running that engine without a radiator... This was actually a water pump discharge rate test, but maybe you can fiddle some tubing and use a bigger bucket? Or a swimming pool...

I bet you are very puzzled about the sludge? How on earth??? You built that engine and it was clean then?

I'd listen to Harrisonati too. A good run with some detergent and then a good chemical cleaner. No doubt a good flush then before new coolant.

Water pump test rig at 15 L per min.jpg
 
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