My R12 POS Arrived!

Bowie

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Well now that we know at least Victorians won't be able to drive around in circles until November, why not keep going and rip stuff of this thing.

Look, its the fuel lines from a Reno 12

And the 8mm EFI hose it will be replaced with;

They is roughly the same length there, I was surprised the "plastique" hose wasn't much heavier, I had expected it to be honestly. Good thing I'm doing this actually as the hard line as it bent over the rear suspension was rubbing on the floor, and was a little thin in some sections. My tank has 4 mounting positions on the passenger side free. I mean the bolts weren't attached to anything and the tank was clearly moving a little in the rear of the car.... Don't feel dumb about ripping it all out now.

The sports sedan rules say the tank needs to be 500mm away from the rearmost part of the car or, you can use Aluminium honeycomb @ 50mm in thickness to protect the fuel system. I'm going to try and mount everything 500mm away and avoid that complexity. Turns out the Reno12 isn't really a big car;

This was going to be the inspiration;

Make a false floor, keep it as low as possible but I suppose the rules have changed from when this image was taken. That would not pass now. 500mm away from the rear of a Reno12 looks like this;


This tank has a little slump near the outlets, I'll position it so that clears the beam housing then probably just bring the hose down to the filter and pump before running it directly to the engine bay on the passenger side. See exhibit a)


Firstly yes this is beautiful, a Dacia 1300 a Romanian is putting back together. I can't tell you how much I like those colour coded suspension bits. And the green is fantastic. Anyway you can see the fuel line on the bottom (passenger side), I'll check the clearances, but suggest I'll just go straight over the hump in the floor plan, making a straight line between the rails and up in the usual spot. If it's a bit sketchy I could move the floor with my hammer some what, or even cut into it weld a half circle or something. I like the idea of bringing it on the non manifold side, then I can curve up to where the battery was where the pressure reg will be, and then up into the carb.

Anyway so I'll sort the tank position / built a little box section cage for it to sit in, maybe just a beam between the wheel arches. I'll have a think about what to do with the filler neck, it will be annoying but I think that's the less of two evils rather then falling foul of the 500mm regulation.

Also, I had another look at that shock tower. I remembered it was a big crappy when we were putting the koni's in;


Yeeeeah so I'll have to replace those washers.. How much of a problem is this now that the strut is all fsked up. My mates tell me this is a fairly common thing that happens with pin setups like this, how can I secure it against the strut tower to stop it moving around. Could I weld / bolt a plate with a removable hiem joint attached to the strut tower for it to screw into if you like? I suppose what would this look like without a rubber mount?

VIV LA RENO! and long live the submarines....
 
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Bowie

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Cleaned up the boot / fuel space again this afternoon, and it's going to be ok.


There is going to be enough room to plumb the filter and fuel pump without any crazy radius in the fuel hose before doing a 180 out to the front.

I'll secure it on the beam cover, then read the rules another 10x time to work out what sort of boxed structure will be suitable to hold it in place.

There will still be enough room to get a funnel in with fill it up, and being centered on top of the beam is probably better then worrying about getting it as low as possible.

Oh some of the seam sealer was chipping away so I broke what I could away, they really didn't weld it to often.. The shock tower isn't even welded all the way around. Suggest I'll go in with the welder and present some material there just because.
 

Bowie

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Ah that rear central triangle, ah do not want to have to take that out ever again. (Oh free front tie rods included because, well they are stuffed too)


Having to slide the threw bolt via the chassis meant it took me waay to long to work out how to get both nuts off the shaft with only 1x 22mm socket.

So.. every bush will have been replaced in the rear by the time the central triangle turns up, and I'm well on the way to be doing as much at the font.

Oh speaking of the front;


Yeah can you take the ends off with the rack in place of is that now coming out too?
 

COL

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Ah that rear central triangle, ah do not want to have to take that out ever again. (Oh free front tie rods included because, well they are stuffed too)

[/URL]

Having to slide the threw bolt via the chassis meant it took me waay to long to work out how to get both nuts off the shaft with only 1x 22mm socket.

So.. every bush will have been replaced in the rear by the time the central triangle turns up, and I'm well on the way to be doing as much at the font.

Oh speaking of the front;

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Yeah can you take the ends off with the rack in place of is that now coming out too?
The steering connecting arms can be taken out without the rack being removed. If you look at each end of the rack you can see a bolt that goes through these arms and onto an eye at the outer end of the gaiter on the rack. Remove this bolt to detach those arms from the rack.

You can replace the bushes in the rear triangle, they are the same bushes as the lower wishbones at the front.
 

Bowie

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Ah I’ve got the arms off all ok, it’s the eye bold into the rack, it’s a little awkward to get a big enough rench in there anyway, and when I did, I could see the rack moving against its mount, ah I’ll take it out anyway.

Ah it uses the same bushes. Good to know.

Cheers.
 

dacia4x4

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with the rack Dan just be aware of rack height Cam positions before you remove 13mm mounting bolts as the upper ones (if i remember correctly) go through the adjusting cams. just a matter of marking Cam position and maybe rack position on relation to crossmember.if you just remove rack and don, t note rack position then just refit rack you will most likely have problems with torque steer on acceleration and pulling on braking due to different rack end height position.... jim
 

Bowie

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I think these have shims? It is just a matter of making sure both ends are as level as each / in the same plane / distance front and back to each other?

The rack came out years ago when I replaced the rubber steering coupler, it's uncertain I installed it correctly back then... might have a look at this.

Oh, now is the time if there are any quicker racks that can go in these? Can you use the rack from a 405 / Reno 18 in these things? / are they even quicker?
 
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schlitzaugen

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For a quicker rack you can try to look for a rack from a PS car, no idea what fits but the closest I would think would be a R20. Fuego might be worth a try too, but keep in Mind Fuego is a different platform.

Other than those the 15/17 I think came with PS but not sure what markets. Not here hence they will be more rare here than the R20.

Not sure if the R18 ever had PS worth a look but again, in Oz they are hen's teeth.

The rack height needs to be adjusted so you don't have bump steer, that is what the shims are for. You'll need to revisit that if you lower the car.
 

COL

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What is wrong with the rack Bowie?

The anti rattle bush in the left side sometimes wears but can be replaced with the rack in the car.

The big lock nuts on the end of the rack are 36mm, I have a 36mm ring open end spanner for them.

The R18 rack is different and has different mounting locations.

You could you use the inner track rod joints and outer track rods from an R18 on your R12 and make doing wheel alignments much easier and more accurate. To do this conversion you remove the eye bolts that are there now and screw in the inner track rods and install the outer rods in place of the track arms, then get a wheel alignment.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/192183264516?hash=item2cbf03e504:g:U3cAAOSwnDZUBYYS

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/234206306487?hash=item3687c8a0b7:g:SOYAAOSw-XJhUXXd

You will also need a pair of new gaiters for the steering rack.
 

Bowie

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That's exactly what I'm planning to do Col. ;) I have the R18 inner and outer rods here to go onto the 12 rack. Didn't think about steering gaiters though...

So I need access to a 36mm ring spanner to get the existing eye bolts out of the rack.. okay.

Nothing wrong with the rack mechanically, just the eye bolts / bushes are flogged on both sides. heaps of movement in the steering arm so they need to come out, but they are coming to to fit the R18 stuff anyway.

And If there was something quicker to turn I'd put that in. From driving it in the wet on the track it takes a bit of work to catch it once it starts to slip, that's all.

Thanks for confirming R18 rack is different, and thanks for reminding me about power steering racks Shultz, I'll file that away and ponder. Could you just open the rack and have made, install a smaller pinion? "shrugs"


And Hmmmmm. I'm going to have to re-read, understand / remind myself what bump steer is / get some help setting up the rack again then.
 
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dacia4x4

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the steering rack heights are a measurement of vertical up and down location of effectively rack eye position so that as suspension moves up and down both tie rods swing in same arc so variation in toe in/toe out on acceleration and braking is same both sides so as not to create pulling/veering to either side if both tie rods are swinging in different arcs. just my take on it........ jim
 

Bowie

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Bowie you could follow this mod done on an R17 for your power Steering.

https://amicale-r15-r17.forumpro.fr/t10028-direction-assistee-electrique-dae-installation

Then your next task will be to find an R12G or R17TS rack which is quicker that what you have and will bolt straight in.
Oh goodness that is a elec power assisted rack! Yeah I don't need that but top effort in he making that 17 of his more enjoyable :)

the steering rack heights are a measurement of vertical up and down location of effectively rack eye position so that as suspension moves up and down both tie rods swing in same arc so variation in toe in/toe out on acceleration and braking is same both sides so as not to create pulling/veering to either side if both tie rods are swinging in different arcs. just my take on it........ jim
Thanks for that description Jim. I have some more reading to do. I feel like the shims move the rack forwards and backwards as apposed to up and down..

But I need a way to measure both rack ends in relation to each other.. ok.
 

schlitzaugen

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That's exactly what I'm planning to do Col. ;) I have the R18 inner and outer rods here to go onto the 12 rack. Didn't think about steering gaiters though...

So I need access to a 36mm ring spanner to get the existing eye bolts out of the rack.. okay.

Nothing wrong with the rack mechanically, just the eye bolts / bushes are flogged on both sides. heaps of movement in the steering arm so they need to come out, but they are coming to to fit the R18 stuff anyway.

And If there was something quicker to turn I'd put that in. From driving it in the wet on the track it takes a bit of work to catch it once it starts to slip, that's all.

Thanks for confirming R18 rack is different, and thanks for reminding me about power steering racks Shultz, I'll file that away and ponder. Could you just open the rack and have made, install a smaller pinion? "shrugs"


And Hmmmmm. I'm going to have to re-read, understand / remind myself what bump steer is / get some help setting up the rack again then.
To make the steering quicker you need a larger pinion not a smaller one. I am sure it can be done but it's not going to be easy. To fit a larger pinion you need to machine some room for it or go to a different tooth module. Which means new custom made rack new custom made pinion. Like I said, not easy.
 

Bowie

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Gotcha, waaaaaay above my pay grade.

In the meantime, thus completes replacing every bush in the rear.

This arrived from Istanbul within a week. Overnight parts from Ja.. Canstantinople!

Original bush was in pretty good condition, if not shrunk and moving about the housing.. Ooops.

And again, just admire how nice everything looks without that rear proportioning valve crap hanging in the rear

Oh and shutout to the handbrake cables not being there that made getting the rear arms in and on a breeze.

The thought occurs the rear now has new bearings, wheels cylinders, fresh suspension components, im running out of things to fix :) And I also realize I've never owned a car with new suspension bushes. I wonder should it rattle :D

So over to the front for the weekend, I'll aim for just sorting the steering rack but bonus points if I get the front springs out. I've got a "tool" along with some hooks I stole from a McPherson spring compressor set. I should be ok providing I can get the tool in around the lower Koni body.
 

schlitzaugen

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Dan.

Get yourself some M10 threaded rod from Bunnings, buy the stronger stuff.

Get a little piece of steel, about 4mm thick at least and drill two holes in it, fairly close (say about 4cm apart), one 8mm one 10mm.

Now undo the top ball joint nut on one side put your piece of steel there, put the threaded rod through the other hole, two nuts to get the end fixed to it and poke it through the hole in the top turret just above that (I think it is the forward bolt you need to remove). You'll figure out what is what when you look at these things on the car.

Now you can wind a nut from above and compress the spring to relieve tension on the lower arm, do your work there. When you're done just release the spring.

If you want to take the spring out, just release the tension gradually and at some point there will be little tension left in it. This is when you can hook some spring compressors on the spring trying to grab only enough coils that you can hold the spring length while you take out the upper suspension arm. You will need to remove the threaded rod after you put the clamps on but if you judge it correctly the two clamps should hold the spring compressed just enough to allow removing the lower arm.

Go easy and watch out. Those springs are out to get you.

To put the spring back in is not that easy but I understand you want to cut some of it so that should help.
 

dacia4x4

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hi Dan, be very careful as these springs can ping out side ways very quickly and easily if spring compressor rods/jaws move away from being 180deg apart. these springs are very long, around 70cm or so free length. at Renault the tool/spring compressor we used had a flat steel band(about 50mmwide)in two halves which went around spring and kept the legs 180deg apart. i did make a tool up when i had my workshop out of 50mm flat bent in half circle about 25mm bend each end with hole in it so each half bolted together formed circle around spring while locating spring compressor legs 180deg apart. whichever spring compressor you use you will have to get the upper jaws around upper coil while suspension is hanging down as there are so many coils once spring is compressed a little, either by Schlitz method of long rod or by jacking under lower control arm you won, t be able to get jaws in. never undo shocker top nuts until spring is fully compressed with clamp around legs of puller, have seen damage done to mudguards when spring has let go by undoing top spring nut when spring not compressed evenly,lower retaining plate between spring and shocker will cock sideways,and spring will pop sideways. very lethal so be careful...... jim
 

Bowie

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Thanks for the warnings all. :)

These springs have actually been out and shortened before. They have had 3 x coils already removed so it should be "less lethal". Sadly I wasn't involved in the removing so I can't copy what happened before :p

For what it's worth the car is on stands, and the top suspension nuts are already undone. I was checking the bush / plate up to the top and I have no worry disconnecting them with the car off the ground.

I'll take some photos of my "tool" I've inherited to explain what I'm up to, but basically its a lipped dish with a cut out to install on the bottom of the shock, with sleeves of ~40mm in length in which m10 rod passes through, running 180 degrees apart.

I also have some M10 size claws that will fit over the rod and be held in place by a top nut. I can compress the spring via the M10 nuts on the bottom of the spring "tool".

Anyway photos later because in the office today. Boooo!
 

dacia4x4

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if your reference top suspension nuts are the shocker top mount nuts i wouldn,t remove them if you have vehicle jacked up without spring compressor on otherwise if shocker shaft moves down through top mount hole spring will ping sideways. if you mean top ball joint nuts not so worrying... take care... jim
 

Bowie

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Ah gotcha! Nut will on top will keep me safe whilst I'm working to compress the springs, ok understand.
 
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