My R12 POS Arrived!

Is it just the weight of the steering that all is worried with the smaller wheel?

Glad to see I'm on the right track then re sway bars. Yes I'm under no allusion that I'll end up with a rocket ship with 17 parts, But if one can ultimately make it change direction like this. :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50y2SkPB51Y

You lot with Gordini and Gordini replicas (17 bits jammed in) does your's look anything like whilst changing direction?

And It's not the body roll mid corner that's so much an issue, but yes the agility going from one direction to the other which I worry might be annoying.

Anyway it's nice to have dreams :p

I'm sure the boffins in Renault did / do know what they are doing, but I'm confident club events and light motorsport were not on the design brief when they were drawing up the 12. I mean, it was there Beetle right? The 12 was designed for export, well to be built cheaply anywhere on earth primarily? And we only got the Gordini 12 thanks to the marketing department right?

Anyway. As linked above, others are having fun with the humble design, I'd like to also :p

If the stars align I'll be at the Rob Roy come try day on the 27th. But I want to change the oil flush the radiator, bleed the brakes, throw some new tryes on it etc etc etc..

Maybe the next one..
 
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This is me up at Winton. Notice how flat it corners for a standard car.

It's a standard R1173 Gordini on standard rims and road tyres but they use 26mm sway bars front n rear and thicker lower coil springs. Mine had Koni shockers.

Yes you can make yours do this but instead of using R17 sway bars get some 26mm made up. Give them your old bars and say you want that in 26mm, no idea what they'd cost these days.

First lesson in motorsport. There is no substitute for cubic dollars.
 

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Cheers David. I had seen that image and was unsure how standard your Gordini was. Aright, wonderful. And yes.

Cubic dollars do rule hahaha.
 
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I find the Virage steering wheel still a little thin in the rim, although they are better than the standard plastic affair.

Fuego steering wheels also fit, but the only disadvantage is the boss being a lot deeper moves your fingers away from the lights and wiper controls.

The standard size steering wheel is 14". I have used a 13" steering wheel before gives nice direct steering but it is a little heavy on hard surfaces.

David is right the large anti-roll bars front and back flatten out these cars and makes them very responsive.

I have been lucky and have come by my go faster bits at good prices.
 
Do I spy the rare Perspex headlight covers that were a popular option in Qld in the seventies when the roads were **** oops they haven't changed much at all?
 
Yes I believe they are. Well they were filled with crud the other day.

Those of you that want rare bit's that I'm not going to appreciate, please speak up for fear that I forget and turf it. I was nearly going to paint them a light orange :D

i should say with that there already is.

-Drivers door wind shield (perspex arm rest protector thing)
-Top windscreen visor (kinda like a dorky cap for your car!
-Rear window cover, (tempted to keep it as it keeps the sun of the rear parcel shelf)
-Tow bar + mounting plates + tow ball.

For anyone that is looking for said bits, take advantage of me now whilst I don't appreciate how rare they are :p
 
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David Cavanagh said:
This is me up at Winton. Notice how flat it corners for a standard car.

It's a standard R1173 Gordini on standard rims and road tyres but they use 26mm sway bars front n rear and thicker lower coil springs. Mine had Koni shockers.

Yes you can make yours do this but instead of using R17 sway bars get some 26mm made up. Give them your old bars and say you want that in 26mm, no idea what they'd cost these days.

First lesson in motorsport. There is no substitute for cubic dollars.
Click to expand...


Are the 17G sway bars 26 mm as well? Too lazy to drag mine out and check.
 
schlitzaugen said:
For a car that suffers from understeer, I am not sure you want a huge difference front-rear.
Click to expand...

???

A good way to lessen understeer is to have relatively more of the roll stiffness (& thus weight transfer & thus grip degradation) at the rear. So a relatively stiffer rear bar compared to the front will lessen understeer & a relatively stiffer front bar will increase understeer. Playing with roll stiffeness differences via changes in spring, sway bar & damper rating in compression 'phase are major ways of adjusting handling balance.

I always wondered with the R17 TL bars if the rear was a greater thickness increase than the front one by reference to an R12 or if the balance was the same.

cheers! Peter
 
4cvg said:
???

A good way to lessen understeer is to have relatively more of the roll stiffness (& thus weight transfer & thus grip degradation) at the rear. So a relatively stiffer rear bar compared to the front will lessen understeer & a relatively stiffer front bar will increase understeer. Playing with roll stiffeness differences via changes in spring, sway bar & damper rating in compression 'phase are major ways of adjusting handling balance.

I always wondered with the R17 TL bars if the rear was a greater thickness increase than the front one by reference to an R12 or if the balance was the same.

cheers! Peter
Click to expand...

That's why I said you don't want a huge difference between the front and the rear sway bars.
 
What a great score, Bowie! I foresee frustration scouring the ebay and junkyards for parts, and empty pockets for a number of years to come. But the exhilaration while waiting at the stage start will be ample compensation.
You got some really good advise, here is what I would add:
First upgrade the brakes to dual circuit and the larger brakes. Take the time to recondition the units before installing. Buy the best pads you can afford. If EBC Greenstuff are available, they are perfect for your intended use; make sure you smoke them right off.
Once the piggy bank recovers from the brakes upgrade, move on to the suspension. You got advise about sway bars etc, I would move further up to the top of the page: Take it ALL apart. First of all, you don't know what you have (previous owners may have made modifications), and what condition it is in. You may already have 17 bits on the car, and they may be shot, hence the poor handling. But the very first thing you must replace are the bushings; best suspension in the world won't work if they are worn.
Be careful with wheels and tires. I would stay with 13's and use a nice low profile track day tire; this would be like having a short diff. And if you want to play in gravel 165's will work well.

I would not do anything to the engine before dealing with brakes, tires and suspension. As for the G in the video, they have changed it into a go kart. Yes, it looks impressive, but it will only work like that on smooth roads. But a well set up gravel 12 will be almost as fast around corners and handle a lot more varied terrain.
 
Re the sway bars, got an email back from K-mac. Looks like one of you had bothered them previous :p Email below.

Hi Daniel,

Yes still have template for the Renault 12.

Cannot recall re mount bushes if front bar has a 2 hole centre mount brackets – yes can supply these with matching 2 urethane D bushes and the 8 outer pivot bushes.

Rear again no longer have the 4 mount bushes – if you supply dimension of out shape can make in urethane.

Re bar diameters, 26mm for size of vehicle is extremely strong.

Need caution here as on internet do see input re thicker is best.

Would suggest MAXIMUM of 24 on front and 20 on rear.

26mm will be no flex and vehicle picking inside wheel up and cornering on its outer edge – especially wet roads!!

Bar price $245 each.

Best regards,
Kevin
Click to expand...

And there you go David. Your Gordini would be better with smaller sway bars. :p Since they are no good, how about you toss em over here and you fit yourself some from a 17.

$245 each in case you missed it, (bushes included) and good to know they won't need a dummy bar to measure from. I also sent an email off to Whiteline, see what they come back with.
 
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ThanosK said:
What a great score, Bowie! I foresee frustration scouring the ebay and junkyards for parts, and empty pockets for a number of years to come. But the exhilaration while waiting at the stage start will be ample compensation.
You got some really good advise, here is what I would add:
First upgrade the brakes to dual circuit and the larger brakes. Take the time to recondition the units before installing. Buy the best pads you can afford. If EBC Greenstuff are available, they are perfect for your intended use; make sure you smoke them right off.
Once the piggy bank recovers from the brakes upgrade, move on to the suspension. You got advise about sway bars etc, I would move further up to the top of the page: Take it ALL apart. First of all, you don't know what you have (previous owners may have made modifications), and what condition it is in. You may already have 17 bits on the car, and they may be shot, hence the poor handling. But the very first thing you must replace are the bushings; best suspension in the world won't work if they are worn.
Be careful with wheels and tires. I would stay with 13's and use a nice low profile track day tire; this would be like having a short diff. And if you want to play in gravel 165's will work well.

I would not do anything to the engine before dealing with brakes, tires and suspension. As for the G in the video, they have changed it into a go kart. Yes, it looks impressive, but it will only work like that on smooth roads. But a well set up gravel 12 will be almost as fast around corners and handle a lot more varied terrain.
Click to expand...

Yes Thanos. I agree :p It's been fun thus far. The neighbours are already talking..

"Ah you've got yourself another French car.."
"ah yes.. should be a fun little thing"
"well hope it's not to noisy"
"oh no, not at all........ yet"

And absolutely. The engine will the last thing that goes in, well, I might want it in place when setting the suspension but yes! Some brakes and suspension please!
 
bowie said:
Re the sway bars, got an email back from K-mac. Looks like one of you had bothered them previous :p Email below.



And there you go David. Your Gordini would be better with smaller sway bars. :p Since they are no good, how about you toss em over here and you fit yourself some from a 17.

$245 each in case you missed it, (bushes included) and good to know they won't need a dummy bar to measure from. I also sent an email off to Whiteline, see what they come back with.
Click to expand...


Someone got a photo of it with the back wheel about a foot off the ground. I'm not questioning Kmacs ability but I think I'll stick with Mr Gordini.
 
There was talk about steering wheels a while back. I prefere R19 (What, I just said something good about a 19) Check em out R19 pre air bag. look good, feel good. Work better on rear engined cars where the steering is lighter but still nice on a 12.
 
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