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My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

forumnoreason

1000+ Posts
good stuff, welding is fun if you're in the right mood! Looking very schmicko, floor pans look great!

have you tried doing leading at all or thought about doing it?
 

bleudanube

Member
First Sunday of self imposed self isolation ��. That’s the advantage when you have a project to tinker with - keeps you occupied!

Finally finished the rear window frames. After making up a couple more sections for the horizontal upper part the whole rear is now finished. Filled in few smaller holes as well that I could‘t work out what they were for - maybe someone had a curtain installed at some stage... anyway, can always drill them back in...

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the onto the roof rails - that are not too bad: a few holes and a number of chewed out outer sections. But easy to fabricate and to put in... can stand and weld in the normal position - yeah - makes a lot of difference to speed and accuracy.

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will finish the roof rails off next week and then onto the seal holders on the A,B and C pillars, many of them are chewed out on the bottom and on the horizontal sections.

Sven
 

bleudanube

Member
Got a fair amount done this weekend. Finished the left roof rail and then got onto the right hand seal holders and outer sills. And for the first time I unpacked one of the parcels - how nice is that!? Ordered a number of seal holder sections and three outer sill sections.

the seal holders are quite easy to change and replace, the spot weld as were quite weak. As expected there was a fair amount of corrosion under it. Used rust converter and then welded the new ones back in. The join will be covered by the seal and not visible.

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The rear left outer sill was the only one that was in ok condition, but still needed two sections replaced. The section near the rear door stay is a double skinned section and there was a fair amount of rust in between. Once cut out, and welded back in with plug welds it is now as good as new. The second patch didn’t come out as well as a I hoped - the join sucked in a bit too much from the heat. Anyway, will fix it up later.

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it was sooooooo nice to fit a new part, in this case the outer sill for the front door. The part fit well, except the pre drilled plug weld holes were in the wrong spot. So had to drill new ones and weld up all the little 5mm ones.

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the right hand side is a fair bit worse than the left sills and holders. Started cutting out the crappy sill holders in six areas. One section underneath, a part of the roof rail, had to be replaced first before I can install the new ones. Both outer sills need to be replaced and also a fair section of the top of the sill - Easter break here we come.

and then it should ‘only’ be the inner sills and floors... the end is in sight... can’t wait to get to something else than rust removal and welding/grinding. A couple more month should see the chassis finished.

Sven
 

Budge

Member
This is very timely! I've just taken delivery of a parcel from Citroen Classics - including all four outer sill covers. I'm in the UK and mine are pretty good. They've rusted where my Pallas trim screws in on the underside, and the bottom edges are crusty in a few other places. (Interesting to note that they also rust in Oz!).

I was going to try patching them but decided it was easier to replace the complete sections. Wish I'd bought a bit of replacement channel now as i will probably end up butchering the lower part getting to those sills.Looks like I'll have to get back in touch with Darrin.
 

forumnoreason

1000+ Posts
what are you painting it all with after the repairs? I have a notion that safaris chassis were all in AC 140 or whatever grey it is? You must be thinking about rust proofing though?
 

Budge

Member
Mine is a 1968 saloon and the chassis should be AC209 black apparently. I'm planning to paint with zinc primer. Not sure what kind of paint to use, but I know I want it to be about 75% gloss - more than satin, less than 'wet look'. I think safaris were "gris rose' - AC136. See the attached.

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bleudanube

Member
The chassis will definitely be painted Gris Rose - it has been painted after the sand blasting with a primer that sticks like s&$t to a blanket. It’s even hard to wire brush off to prep for welding. Have to check again what product it was - but it’s a great base. Once I replace all the seam sealer it will need priming again anyway, but I haven’t found a painter yet in Melbourne - and I am after one that won’t charge like a wounded bull...
 

Johno1

Member
From what I gather that’s a given but give it another month they might be looking for work, unfortunately.I’ve been following your progress from a distance as I’m working on my 68 ID at a snails pace, with no previous auto knowledge but thank goodness only have some superficial rust.Thanks for your posts!
 

bleudanube

Member
YOU’RE A WIZARD HARRY ... :banana: after watching a number of rotisserie and tilt jig videos, I decided: how hard can it be to build one - $150 later here the result. Works a treat. Here a little clip:


The jigs attach to the axle points. I have been using the castor wheel brackets as the base and bolted the tilt jigs onto those after taking the wheels off. To make moving the chassis easier left to right I used 30x10mm bearings as rollers. Works a treat.

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Getting Access to the floor and sills will make it a lot easier and safer! So, what did I find “down there”!?

yes, more rust... crikey, the right hand sill is a lot worse than the left hand one (I think).

Started on the rear right corner. There is visible corrosion between the inner and outer sill, like it is on the front corner. So, started drilling out dozens of spot welds to get access to a certain degree and bend the floor pan out of the way.

yes, removing all floor panels, the seat/silencer box and fuel tank walls would be nicer, but I am too concerned the whole chassis will bend... or there’s nothing left afterwards. And from what I can see the “middle” section of the sill is actually ok. But the front and back 500mm is certainly rusty inside.

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Hey Tim and Michael... do you want the kilos of red dirt back... :D

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so the challenge is to cut out the rust as well as I can, convert the remaining areas to stop further spread. I know I won’t get to all areas, especially where panels are double skinned. There are that many spot welds that make it almost impossible to get access without destroying the panels. So, some compromises have to be made.

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I am replacing three sections of the upper side of the right hand sill, where the rot is really bad.

A small, easy section was the bottom of the C pillar. A nice interlude compared to the sill work...

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A few good days, but it will be an uphill battle to fix the sills properly... bit concerned, but will get there. Nothing better than a challenge... :wink2:

Sven
 
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lamoor

Member
this is some serious exceptional metal work going on here. not too many people can take this on and the cost to outsource. absolutely a credit to you for saving this car. obvious question for me, what is left of the original structure have you made a estimate. seem like a complete safari frame build. loving this restoration.
 

bleudanube

Member
Well, this weekend seemed to be another step up in difficulty of body work... trying to turn this rusty rear right hand corner into something resembling a solid one. So, to recap, the corner looked like this:

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Had to cut out parts of the inner sill, outer sill, the end panel was full of holes, cross braces rotten, floor outer edge buggered. One of those areas where you start and it gets progressively worse... the good part is that the middle section of the sill seems to be pretty good - just surface rust.

so, had to make up a dozen or so seperate replacement pieces. the rear closing panel has a pressed section that I had to reuse, would have been too hard to form that myself. Took a bit of time, but came up well after all.

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before I patched all the pieces back in I used my underbody spray gun to douse the sills in rust converter. Probably sprayed too much into it, but it reached the far flung areas of the sills quite well. That should slow decay for while at least.

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Then it was time to weld the sections back in. For the inner sills I tried the flanging tool I bought a few months ago and then plug weld the sections together. Not sure I like it as it will need filler to mask the join, but as it is not visible (After all its the tank enclosure side walls that I am replacing...) it’s not too bad.

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A bit more tidy up, and it was almost as good as new. Again a lot of grinding, but I am getting a bit better at plug welds. Doing them upside down is a bit tricky...

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And now it’s time to close it all off again. Will finish it next weekend.
I bought the replacement floor section edge from Darrin in the Uk. The material is a bit thicker, but the shape and fit seems pretty good. Not sure yet whether I will use the flanging / plug weld method to match up the floor section or back to butt welds...

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it is rewarding when things come together nicely. Rebuilding a whole chassis corner ... wouldn’t have attempted that six months ago.

Sven
 

forumnoreason

1000+ Posts
I reckon you're slaying it, the problem I recall with replacement panels was they liked a bit more oomph with the welding but the bits I was sticking them to didn't, so the issue was blowing through the old metal, getting a balance was the trick, so not plain sailing. Looks good!
 

bleudanube

Member
After a few more hours of grinding and welding the right rear corner is finally done! Phew, I must have rewelded 100 spotwelds... what a task. I bought my trusty Bunnings GMC grinder over a decade ago and I am amazed that thing is still going strong.

first job this weekend was to extend the tilt jig onto the other side. That will make access to the left side easier when I get there. Will also help when I apply the under body sealer. took only a couple of hours - much faster than the initial build.

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Then onto finishing off the floor - not difficult, just tedious welding/grinding. But all looks good. Onto the front right next. Here a few shots:

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Sven
 

bleudanube

Member
Next step: front right corner... another pretty bad spot. I already cut the floors out months ago and have the replacement panels ready. The sills are about as bad as the rear corner. In this area I had to chop out the double skinned part as well as the inner skin is badly rotten. Rust has certainly been blooming in the lower 150mm of the sill, however, the remaining 50mm have actually been quite rust free...

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now that I cut out all the bad parts, Access has been a lot easier. Still quite a few panels to be made up, but at least I can now see what is what and how to rebuild the section. In total it will be 4 panel sections, rebuilding the strengthening bracket and then the floor panels and it’s strengthening strip.

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on the main panels I used the flanging and plug weld method again. Still not sure, it is faster than butt welds, but I don’t like the looks. It will be ok once some filler has been applied, but the joins remain quite messy - maybe I am doing it wrong. More YouTube videos to be watched ....

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fabricating the inner sill was quite easy and likewise the bracket section. I will be reusing the outer skin of the sill after the rusty inside has been cleaned up and prepped with rust converter. So, finishing this weekend, the whole area has been primed and additional rust converter applied.

next weekend I can finish off the sills and then install the floor panel. Looking forward to that part. Hopefully the panels I had made up will fit and the ribs match the existing ones.

then it’s time to flip the chassis over and start on the left hand side. Rinse / repeat... :wink2:

Sven
 
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forumnoreason

1000+ Posts
have you thought about getting onto the Mike Sanders anti corrosion cavity grease? Now would be the ideal time to hook in! I did the cheap alternative, poured engine oil in and lanolin in the doors.
 

bleudanube

Member
Close to finishing the front right corner. Today I replaced the floor panel, which finishes the section. A few months ago I had the two floor sections made up, With the grooves rolled in. The panels were a bit oilcanned, but after trimming it to size it flattened out enough to be able to weld it in neatly.

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once the floor section was matched up, I fit the floor edge section and plug welded it in. The welder setting had to be a fair bit higher as the replacement panel is made from 1.6mm plate, not the normal 1mm plate.

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cleaned up the inside of the welds and I finally have a floor back! Rather than a large hole... nice one!

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quick squirt of paint - and it’s as good as new. Still need to clean up the welds on the underside and add the strengthening strip next weekend. Then onto the left hand sill.

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have also (potentially) found some hubcaps via leboncoin in France... let’s see whether I can somehow work out the transaction. Shipping outside of France seems a bit tricky. We will see... nothing ventured , nothing gained.

Sven
 

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