My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

bleudanube

Member
"So it must be the thermostat that causes the overheating."
Are you relying on the big red light of doom?
If you are, check the sender first. Mine closed at 85C, not very useful with an 82C thermostat. My new sender closes at 105C.
I don’t even have a light of doom. No sender, no light, no gauge. May need to add something small and unobtrusive…
 

faulksy

Member
As far as I know, there is only one part number for the height correctors which suggests they are all the same.
 

Hotrodelectric

Now go make me a sandwich
I don’t even have a light of doom. No sender, no light, no gauge. May need to add something small and unobtrusive…
I would do that, Sven. That extra hole you have in the switch panel would be the perfect location. A warning lamp would be ridiculously easy to add. You can tap power for it off of the fuel gauge or the turn signal switch (the "purple" ignition wire). Is there a bung in the cylinder head you can use for a sender? I think I have a couple of red factory-style warning lamps, I can let you have one.
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
These days I wouldn't muck around cutting up the dash, or drilling/welding/etc the pump/head plates ... or messing with the radiator hoses.

https://engineguard.com.au/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2qKDm72F8wIVEZlmAh04MgsUEAAYASAAEgLGm_D_BwE

WAAAAaaaayyy better than an analogue temp gauge as it'll scream at you and prompt you to look at it if the engine is getting to hot. You could just hide the electronic box somewhere it can't be seen once you trust the car .... and rely on the audible warning rather than having the modern gauge on display.

I must buy one ( or 5 ) of these someday :)
 

bleudanube

Member
Engineguard… that was it. That just triggered my memory of a former mention of that gizmo. Will investigate in earnest! Thanks DC.
 

bleudanube

Member
Hydraulics gremlins - episode 2:

i continued to go through the pipes, unions and connections and so far haven’t found anything that looks wrong. The accumulator sphere had a blown o-ring, which pushed out and leaked. Getting the sphere off took a fair bit of rooting around, but all done now. Leak 1 fixed.

the suspension was stuck on high, so I started pulling the two pipes at the break accumulator off … wowser! Definitely pressure and LHM around… sprayed a fair distance 😖. But I was then able to move the suspension, so the height corrector should be fine, but I still need to check the return piping - to make sure it is flowing freely. If not it may be the cause (it had a hole and I soldered it shut… maybe too shut…)

next problem was the brake system. I didn’t get any fluid to the brake cylinders when I tried to bleed. As above, I have lHM in some lines for sure, but hard to tell as the six lines are all bundled up in the one octopus. But there is one ‘single’ line that feeds the brake pedal trolley slide valve. There is no fluid when I take it off! But should be as it gets fed from the rear suspension circuit - and those operate as intended. Question: as it is a “dead end” line - does it need bleeding somehow? How would the air otherwise get out of the slide cylinder and line? It’s got to go somewhere.

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I will keep working my way through it systematically… let’s see how much more LHM I can dump on the floor.

Sven
 

bleudanube

Member
Gremlins part 3:

looks like the soldered up / repaired pipe was blocked, broke two drills and the hole that got fixed up opened up again.

So, Sunday calls to the Melbourne fraternity (maybe Faulksy or Pottsy?) - does anyone own the flaring tool so I can cut the bad end off and create a new flare…

Alternatively, does anyone have that pipe spare and can part with it? Front HC return - connection between the two HC.

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bleudanube

Member
Problem found (I hope)…. Found a 10cm steel wire, diameter 2.5mm, in the pipe… surely that is not “the wire” some talk about to restrict flow? It surely does that… no flow at all. this can’t be right, or can it? Am I seeing white mice?!

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Buttercup

Member
I guess that wire is there to regulate the speed of lowering during height correction.
Removing it will probably allow the car to fall rather than correct.
Yes it may have become blocked, but that doesn't mean you should discard it.
 

schlitzaugen

1000+ Posts
Oh God.

These things are inscrutable.

Can one replace all this mechanical system with a computerised one?

Can't believe I asked that, but this is too much. How the heck did they engineer all this?!
 

PeterMol

New member
Gremlins part 3:

looks like the soldered up / repaired pipe was blocked, broke two drills and the hole that got fixed up opened up again.

So, Sunday calls to the Melbourne fraternity (maybe Faulksy or Pottsy?) - does anyone own the flaring tool so I can cut the bad end off and create a new flare…

Alternatively, does anyone have that pipe spare and can part with it? Front HC return - connection between the two HC.

View attachment 136594
Cccv has a flaring tool specifically for this task
 

faulksy

Member
I wouldn't worry about air in the line to the proportioning piston, the LHM will compress the air until it's at he same pressure as the LHM. You could bleed it by undoing the flare nut slightly while the system is under pressure just be ready with a rag.

Is LHM making it past the brake accumulator and into the line that feeds the brake valve? If it is, then you've got a problem with the piping to the brake valve or there is a mismatch between the brake LHM brake valve and car's pipework.
 

Buttercup

Member
Oh God.

These things are inscrutable.

Can one replace all this mechanical system with a computerised one?

Can't believe I asked that, but this is too much. How the heck did they engineer all this?!
Over 20 years of focused, determined, scientific, genius and mostly rational work.
You can't suggest that the modern computerised ones are any better.
We are looking at a 65 year old design, and a 57 year old example that had failed for the first time.
Your modern computerised version is sometimes giving trouble at 5 years old.
The computer still relies on signals from sensors which detect mechanical things,
And the engineering is not good enough.
For all your plastic pizzazz, zoom zoom advertising, blinking lights and giant touch screens, you don't get more reliability, nor more driving pleasure.
This re-creation of a masterpiece by Sven is going to bring more joy to the world over the next 50 years, then any new car built this year, guaranteed!

So....... please don't suggest it's "too much"....... it's actually "enough".
 

bleudanube

Member
I guess that wire is there to regulate the speed of lowering during height correction.
Removing it will probably allow the car to fall rather than correct.
Yes it may have become blocked, but that doesn't mean you should discard it.
Well, for now that wire has been removed and the pipe brazed with another flared piece I cut off a spare pipe.

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Coincidently I had the experts at hand (within 10klm radius of course…🙄) to help with the brazing.

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ok, back home - pipe goes in, and…

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…it made all the difference!

the suspension went up as before but now also moves down again! YEEESSSSS! Does it drop too fast… hmm, maybe, but they rear HC doesn’t have a wire in the pipe… maybe the front should have one as there is more weight on it… anyway, would be easy to add later. For now VERY HAPPY

The brake also received fluid and I was able to bleed the rear brakes. The red brake hydraulic pressure light went off, which also tells me my concerns about having to bleed the brake pedal has been eliminated.

what a relief! It was doing my head in!

now onto the rest of the punch list:

- front brakes are leaking. Bugger. Looks like the pressure plate that holds the pistons was too corroded after all - I had that concern, but thought I would give it a go. Might need to order new ones… and then pull it all apart again… 😩 they looked ok after blasting, but looks like they are not sealing properly.

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- ride height adjustment. The rear HC doesn’t seem to be right yet and the sway bar still needs to be set up.

- I have an oil leak right at the back of the engine… GGGRRRRRR 😢. Not sure exactly where yet - but might be the oil pan… not sure whether that can be repaired from the outside… dreading an engine out job…

But for now: very happy. One major step closer to completion.
 

Buttercup

Member
Ahhhh..... there's your problem..... well, one of them,
The blasting of the brake piston carriage was not a good idea.
It makes the surface so rough that the O-Ring can't seal.
I have never blasted any parts that house O-Rings for that reason.
O-Rings can cope with small pits but not a generally roughened surface.

I suggest that you don't need to replace the carriage.
If you rub around in the groove with a piece of emery cloth, and then with a fine one, you can restore the surface.
It is likely you could use the same size of O-Ring, or select a slightly thicker one, from either a metric or imperial assortment.
Don't be shy about substituting O-Ring sizes, it happens all the time in my world. If you measure the groove depth, and add 10% for compression of the elastomer, it will be about right. Don't go above 15% compression.

The rear suspension return pipe is very long by comparison to the front one, so it creates friction with flow, without a wire to further slow it. And, as you suggest, the pressure is less.
 

bleudanube

Member
Thanks Bob for the tips. Looking at new carriers at $800 ex the UK I might as well try your suggestion! Just hate the idea of having to pull the whole front apart again to get to the brakes…

I will wait until I can drive the car properly for a while before I muck around with a potential wire insert. The one pulled out was definitely too tight, not convinced it was just grime. 2.5mm feels too thick for the pipe ID, but maybe someone can confirm whether there is a wire in the line normally and if yes: how long and what diameter?
 

bleudanube

Member
Always nice to have a long weekend, so have been tackling a few more leaky parts…. Now that the suspension and brake circuit are working I followed the manual and did the static adjustment - let’s see how close the ride height will be to where it should be.

And I also picked up my first panel from the painter! The Bleu D’Orient looks fantastic. Exactly what I was hoping for, dark blue in the sun and almost black in the shade… can’t wait to get all the other panels back in a couple of weeks

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Here the swatch against the ‘old gold’ seat covers… in a dark-ish garage.

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The two items that are still leaking are the steering rack and the brake callipers. I had a spare power steering rack so I thought: how hard can it be to pull it apart. Well, not hard, but one needs a few tricky tools to dismantle it. But, after a few hours of mucking around I got it all apart.

so, onto my actual rack: same process, not as stuck and corroded. All the slides and guides look ok, no scoring. Before disassembly I marked all the key positions of the pinions and valve blocks - to hopefully assemble it all in the right place later on.

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This one was the trickiest of the lot. Removing the thin guide from the rack - I had an old, long spark plug tool that just worked, sliding it over the extension and into the housing…

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To remove the pressed on pinion I used a number of extensions and a bolt in the socket to hammer out the rack and not damage it

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So I will order a new seal kit, polish all the slides and guides and put it all back together as it was, hoping (maybe in vain) that the cut over pressures will still be right and the whole rack doesn’t leak any more. We will see!

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I then refined Bob’s idea of sanding the brake carrier grooves to remove some of the pitting and hopefully get the o-rings to seal.

I cut 50mm sandpaper discs, bolted them in between two large washers and forced them into the grooves, the carefully used the drill to sand the leading edge of the groove. Looks and feels smoother, let’s hope it worked as intended …

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I might see if Wolfgang can test them in his rig somehow… rather than installing them in the car, only to find they still leak. Updates to come in the next couple of weeks.

Sven
 
Perhaps, seat the brake o-rings in the housing with an anaerobic hydraulic sealant to fill the surface pitting? The worst it can do is leak again.
Have you now declared that repaired pipe a permanent fix?
 

bleudanube

Member
Perhaps, seat the brake o-rings in the housing with an anaerobic hydraulic sealant to fill the surface pitting? The worst it can do is leak again.
Have you now declared that repaired pipe a permanent fix?
I am thinking about a sealant or liquid metal or the like, but will try first without it - maybe I am lucky and the sanding has delivered a good sealing surface…

might be a bit too early to declare the repaired pipe a fix, because I am still questioning the wire that I found. I would like to know what diameter and length of wire Citroen inserted ex factory. Once I can actually drive the car I will see whether the suspension movement is as required. But for now yes, “permanent fix”.
 
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