My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

Budge

Member
Budge, intrigued now: later steel pressure regulator... are you talking about the accumulator or else? If so, didn’t realise there is an “older” version - what does the original one look like? Does anyone have a photo?

The regulator is the bit the accumulator sphere screws into. Older ones were made of aluminium and Citroen replaced them with an all steel design in the late 60s and advised swapping up to the new type if replacing. Perhaps because of stress fractures? The way to tell them apart is that the old aluminium ones have a chunky screw-on cap at the top end. I can see that yours doesn't have that.

The instructions for servicing it found in manual 814 is for the old type(!) you have to source volume 3 of French manual 583 for instructions on the new type. You would need to be able to read French, but i've saved you the bother: https://ds-restoration.blogspot.com/2018/02/pressure-regulator-strip-and-rebuild.html
 

bleudanube

Member
Very handy, thanks for that. Will file this way and use when I get to that part of the rebuild (in 2025 or thereabouts :wink2:)...

Michael, if you have the original regulator, a spare Marchal light or else that would be great. I am sure I will uncover a few more bits I might need over time... would be great if you could help. Will slowly put a list together as I pull the car apart.

Sven
 
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Leave the steel regulator on the car. It was a period replacement part. The aluminium regulators used to split and you would have a high pressure leak sending out corrosive brake fluid all over the engine compartment.

Roger
 

IDear

New member
There you go Sven. Roger might be a farmer but he knows what he's talking about when it comes to information on these older cars.
 

gerrypro

1000+ Posts
Leave the steel regulator on the car. It was a period replacement part. The aluminium regulators used to split and you would have a high pressure leak sending out corrosive brake fluid all over the engine compartment.

Roger
Agreed! They would fail at the boss that the HP pipe from the pump was screwed into! Two types one with a small cap retained by a circlip ( early type ) and one with a larger screw on cap. The cast steel later unit is far superior but does not look quite right if you are a stickler for originality.
 

Budge

Member
Two types one with a small cap retained by a circlip ( early type ) and one with a larger screw on cap. The cast steel later unit is far superior but does not look quite right if you are a stickler for originality.

I know the later steel ones had a cap and circlip, but have never seen aluminium ones with the same set-up. Are they very early ones - before the screw-cap type?
 
By the look of the parts catalogues, the aluminium pressure regulator was beefed up in December 1960, including the addition of the large aluminium cap.

Roger
 

tomatoes4all

New member
IMG_1608.JPG
Budge, intrigued now: later steel pressure regulator... are you talking about the accumulator or else? If so, didn’t realise there is an “older” version - what does the original one look like? Does anyone have a photo?
Hi Sven, here a picture of the pressure regulator on my 1962 ID. I have no reason to believe it is not the original alloy one on this car, as everything else was. Cheers, Erik.
 
That is the original type pressure regulator. I have an old one and so far it has resisted my attempts to remove the cap without resorting to brutality. The steel type is easier to work with other than removing the snap ring (can drill a hole) and the plastic cover on the XA/XM type bending out of shape. If using a donor from a car with a flow divider there is a return port from the flow divider not present on others. They are painted black in XA/XM.

Don't forget not all DS used a regulator for the common 62Bar accumulator. Some of the pre-70 cars have lower pressures - see manuals. The shims are for adjustment.
 
David, that is the second type of aluminium regulator, the one I think started being used in December 1960. There is an earlier one with a smaller inset cap that looks more like the later steel ones. From memory the cap has an anodised finish and a couple of small holes in it.

Roger
 
OK, yes, like this from the 1957 parts book.
DS19_57_Reg.JPG
Those would be fairly uncommon given most of the cars here appeared after 1960. It's the same basic layout, with the main change being to screw the cap on externally rather than internally. Apparently used from December 1960.
 

bleudanube

Member
Quick one for the brains trust:

to remove the drive shafts, is the concept the same on the old cars with the centre hub than the younger 5-stud cars: remove the two small screws on the hub side (mine only has one - is that all that holds the hub and shaft in place?), remove all the bolts at the brake disc side and pull the bugger out?

Asking because there is only one tiny screw on the hub / wheel end... or is there another method on the old cars that I need to be aware of to take them out?

Sven
 

bleudanube

Member
Ah well, worked the drive shafts out - got to pull the whole shebang apart, hub included.
E0AD4732-8AC2-4360-BCB9-C0C4165CDD4E.jpeg
The tapers were bloody tight and I am still not sure why the whole front suspension assembly isn’t coming off even after I removed the four bolts/nut... is there a trick to remove them?

This weekend was engine removal weekend: Got the hoist and slings and an hour later the engine was out!
6D2BA67E-66C9-4D61-B53E-937C8CC4A2D7.jpeg
5D2257B0-7580-4E6C-8F89-83AB39D01DAA.jpeg
385734FE-D3D1-4041-9B7C-348CE1E0B22F.jpeg
Used my new wheel dollies as the trolley to move it around. It will now sit in then corner until I get to it. Want to get to the chassis first - fix the rust and get it off to the paint shop. It takes up a hell of a lot of space and while that’s being painted, I can get to all the mechanical clean up and repairs.

But that’s months away. For now I keep disassembling...

sven
 
Ah well, worked the drive shafts out - got to pull the whole shebang apart, hub included.
View attachment 114028
The tapers were bloody tight and I am still not sure why the whole front suspension assembly isn’t coming off even after I removed the four bolts/nut... is there a trick to remove them?

This weekend was engine removal weekend: Got the hoist and slings and an hour later the engine was out!
View attachment 114029
View attachment 114030
View attachment 114031
Used my new wheel dollies as the trolley to move it around. It will now sit in then corner until I get to it. Want to get to the chassis first - fix the rust and get it off to the paint shop. It takes up a hell of a lot of space and while that’s being painted, I can get to all the mechanical clean up and repairs.

But that’s months away. For now I keep disassembling...

sven

No doubt others will comment .. I think that is a rare engine as it has a harmonic balancer at the rear. IIRC that was something that appeared and was phased out after a short period.
 

Ken W

1000+ Posts
Ah Mr Fritz...,

I saw the 'pulley' as well and wondered what that was doing there. Thanks for answering that question in advance.

Cheers, Ken
 
The harmonic balancer is not rare at all. It was fitted to all DS19 engines from March 1961 and all ID19 Safari engines from March 1963.

Roger
 

gerrypro

1000+ Posts
Ah well, worked the drive shafts out - got to pull the whole shebang apart, hub included.
View attachment 114028
The tapers were bloody tight and I am still not sure why the whole front suspension assembly isn’t coming off even after I removed the four bolts/nut... is there a trick to remove them?

This weekend was engine removal weekend: Got the hoist and slings and an hour later the engine was out!
View attachment 114029
View attachment 114030
View attachment 114031
Used my new wheel dollies as the trolley to move it around. It will now sit in then corner until I get to it. Want to get to the chassis first - fix the rust and get it off to the paint shop. It takes up a hell of a lot of space and while that’s being painted, I can get to all the mechanical clean up and repairs.

But that’s months away. For now I keep disassembling...

sven
Does the engine have a DW prefix to its number?
 

bleudanube

Member
Gerry, it does have a DW on the label. Couldn’t work it out as it doesn’t seem to exist in the books... what does it stand for?

019FEB82-3F38-4865-A671-D6D1BBDE4C81.jpeg
 

forumnoreason

1000+ Posts
excuse my impertinence but this thread has all the hallmarks of a resto thread!

?

I like the original colour scheme of poo brown btw. Very Citroen. And unusual. But the blue is nice too.
 
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