My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

Buttercup

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Also, don't open the gas supply too much. Normally 10 litres a minute is plenty.
Most MIG gas regulators have a green patch between 10 and 20 Lpm ( some show a lot more)..... so people tend to set it in the middle.
Not only does this waste gas, but with a small torch, the gas exit speed is to high, and it causes "wind" which actually sucks air in behind it...... causing shielding problems.
The natural reaction to this is to turn the gas up, when in fact the fix is to turn it down.
Only when I can't avoid a breezy day, might I turn it up, and always setup the weld position so the torch is pointing towards the ambient air flow.

With car panel and structural work I am often doing plug welds, through a 5 or 6mm hole (depending on material thickness) in the top layer. This replicates the original spot weld quite well, and you should avoid the tendency to weld to much.
 

Ramaling

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Also, don't open the gas supply too much. Normally 10 litres a minute is plenty.
Most MIG gas regulators have a green patch between 10 and 20 Lpm ( some show a lot more)..... so people tend to set it in the middle.
Not only does this waste gas, but with a small torch, the gas exit speed is to high, and it causes "wind" which actually sucks air in behind it...... causing shielding problems.
The natural reaction to this is to turn the gas up, when in fact the fix is to turn it down.
Only when I can't avoid a breezy day, might I turn it up, and always setup the weld position so the torch is pointing towards the ambient air flow.

With car panel and structural work I am often doing plug welds, through a 5 or 6mm hole (depending on material thickness) in the top layer. This replicates the original spot weld quite well, and you should avoid the tendency to weld to much.
I've cut the rusty side off my roof rails and am installing the replacement rails on top of the old rails. That means I have a sandwich zone between the two. I cut the inside upturn off the replacement rails. I am thinking of using a Sika seal and bonding paste in this zone to not only structurally bond the two but also eliminate a potential rust void. Through the two layers I am then going to install the bolted cleats to bolt down the roof but will also install a few stainless steel pop rivets where they won't show.
It should be as strong as buggery and very rust proof.

I would use plug welding however I think the glue/sealant will contaminate the welds which would be hard to prepare. I'll see how it goes.
 
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DoubleChevron

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Have a look at the latest fitzees fabrication video. He compares the welding wires. Are you guys using the 0.6mm he suggests?
 

Ramaling

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Have a look at the latest fitzees fabrication video. He compares the welding wires. Are you guys using the 0.6mm he suggests?
Yes I had a good look at Fitzees video and yes I am using 0.6mm solid wire with argon/O2/CO2 gas and its dead easy. I have a WIA 190 MIG and the polarity change on my welder is vastly easier than on the Miller. There are separate plugins for + and - polarity. I just wish he worked in metric - all that gauge stuff and 0.023 inches does my head in
 

bleudanube

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The Citroen Karate Kid - Filler on - filler off…

To make life a little easier I soaked the bonnet in paint stripper, then glad wrapped it for a few days. The white layer was able to be scraped off and then I used a paint strip disc to bring it back to bare metal.

FAA6978F-6C93-4307-B4B8-2DF6E0EC5720.jpeg


7BE0F950-560F-45EA-AA69-2AB6F140887A.jpeg



E4497341-2C23-46B5-A704-9AD01A18F9EF.jpeg


50’years of denting certainly ensured that I had my work cut out to hammer out dents, fill and sand… but, it is getting pretty close. Another day should see me finish the panels.

55CDDBBE-45C6-4A6A-85A8-D765DC4718EB.jpeg


681AF96F-B50E-4983-AEED-FFCC283BC201.jpeg


So, to ensure the panels will align and fit once they are properly painted I bolted the hinges on, added the same shims as I took them off - at least as a starting point.

645B47EF-9E1F-44DE-88B8-765BA65EDA22.jpeg


And within a few minutes she looks almost like a car again! The gaps and panel alignment has been ok…. Passenger side ended up pretty good after moving a few shims around and aligning the hinges and rubber pads.

3ED6B098-D37F-4F26-A2E8-0B0247747C13.jpeg


The drivers side needed a bit more fiddling. Still not happy with the driver door to fender gap - it is too big at the top, but I am out of adjustment… hmm, stop for now and have another look at it next weekend… there will be a way! There always is…😬

7FE768AE-8F10-4E64-B056-2076F29C9FC2.jpeg


Well, can you see it!!?? Almost looks like a Safari again. A couple more months and it should be done… lockdown heaven.

next jobs are the bonnet, spraying on the stone guard in the fender wells, seam sealing the panels and adding two more seal strips once the arrive from Europe. Then - off to the painter!

Sven
 

DoubleChevron

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refit the windows and see if everything is lining up and working before you send it to the paintshop. Early D's are the most aggravating things you'll come across to get right. You don't want to be doing that with freshly painted panels. This also gives you the opportunity to, er, "tweak" ... or should I say "twist, bend and modify" any panels to get them right.

Its a huge amount of extra work .... but gee's its endlessly aggravating if you can't get everything working. eg: you can have the doors working properly .... or the windows sealing/seating properly ... but not both.

seeya
Shane L.
 

Buttercup

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Yes, drivers door wing joint.....
Is the wing sitting a little high at the rear?
You might need to adjust the sanding of the chine on the wing.
Maybe you have the panels of that side climbing to the front, so the wing tips down.... opening the top of the gap.
How is the drivers door sitting in its frame rubber? All snug?
Shane's suggestion of a complete mock up is good, it ensures no adjustments required after painting.
Maybe I should have offered you my NOS bonnet.....?
Sorry I have plans for it......
 

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I would second adding the glass. It's amazing how much they sag and warp with the extra weight. I had a bugger of a time getting all the doors to shut nicely as they kept moving every time trim, locks, handle etc. was added to each door.

Closing up that front gap might be a case of taking some shims out from behind the front door hinge cups to bring the door forward. it will widen the gap between the doors but it should be easy enough to even it out between the 3 panel gaps on that side.
 

bleudanube

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Ok… thanks for the tips of adding the windows in and align the doors with it all installed….

I assume you would then remove it all before painting again or maybe only leave the adjusted guides in the door? Just remove the glass and winder mechanism…
 

Buttercup

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Ok… thanks for the tips of adding the windows in and align the doors with it all installed….

I assume you would then remove it all before painting again or maybe only leave the adjusted guides in the door? Just remove the glass and winder mechanism…
Yes, once positioned, leave the tracks in.
 

faulksy

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From memory, you can't remove the lock mechanism with the rear glass guide in so at least one of them needs to come back out. The other option is to just mask up the lock and paint over it
 

Buttercup

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From memory, you can't remove the lock mechanism with the rear glass guide in so at least one of them needs to come back out. The other option is to just mask up the lock and paint over it
Good memory........
 

DoubleChevron

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From memory, you can't remove the lock mechanism with the rear glass guide in so at least one of them needs to come back out. The other option is to just mask up the lock and paint over it

You could probably unscrew the catch from the outside and leaving it hanging and tape it up (that way you can partially paint behind it so there is no hard edge.
 

bleudanube

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it’s been a good couple of weeks - all the panels are prepped and finished! The seal holders from the UK arrived, so I welded them onto the remaining doors and finished the filler and sanding work.

I primed the bonnet, inside and out with 2-pac epoxy and applied some filler over the two dented area that I was able to straighten previously.

EA042B96-57CF-4349-8386-1E48A65E7315.jpeg


I applied a few coats of stone guard into the wheel wells of the front and rear fenders. Not the original brushstroke look, but more even and with better coverage

F18ACFB6-2CF7-4D73-B43B-70F3B32F6D1F.jpeg


The bottom of the doors received some seam sealer that resembles the original look.

569F30AD-F518-4480-B895-93651FBBD064.jpeg


Well - and here they all are - ready for the final step. High build primer and top coat.

C81DC406-3981-4669-B216-9021758D77A8.jpeg


After two hours of vacuuming the whole garage, all shelves and the car itself I could finally move onto the more fun bits again. It is surprising how fine the sanding dust is and where it settles… bloody everywhere😩

After installing the front seat’s backrest covers, I installed the front seats onto its extended rails. As the seats are now about 120mm further back than they would normally be, I removed the stoppers for the foldable rear seat again - the seat was fouling on them. I won’t need them as I won’t be able to fold the seat flat forward anyway now with he seats that far back.


5355A2EB-3121-4FE4-995A-4F7F31A1C562.jpeg


One outstanding job was to adjust the rear brake pads. As I don’t have the proper tool, I dollied one up - made from a couple of clamps and a square… worked ok (I hope - still got to get the hydraulics to work before I know for sure..)

90E84418-2D0B-41F3-8735-013A9F88CCDA.jpeg


I polished the ID hubcaps that I bought from Citroen Andre - I love the blingy bits of the car..😄

D7B39FB0-8445-4B06-99C8-A1E6DF2F3ABA.jpeg


So, time to put the wheels on and have a look - love it. Really like the simplicity of the ID rims and caps.

I checked the front wheel alignment with a long steel box section. The steering clamp needed a bit of adjustment. Not sure the alignment is right yet, but at least it is symmetrical for now!

F7A4A9F6-0707-4910-A5FC-F6742D60B695.jpeg


Next job was to fit the windscreen. But then I realised that I first needed to install another section on the inside of the screen, between the dash and the screen. That profile holds the dash top in place and channels the screen demister air onto the screen… as always: I had to take half the dash apart again to install that sucker….

The windscreen installation was then relatively straight forward. The new seal fit well, but the bottom seal, installed in its holder profile, needed some sealant to ensure no moisture can seep in.

the corners were sealed off with the usual
Mastic sausage under the seal profile.

The clap hand wipers are a bit of a joke I think… 😂. They barely wipe the screen (as a percentage of the total surface) … better not drive in the rain me thinks…😄 But they look cute…!

43B77598-198E-4D68-AA3B-369646CA45AD.jpeg


And to finish today’s blog: can anyone send me a photo or description how the handle is clipped into the frame? There is the golden clip, but also that little tab coming off the frame at say 45 degrees… but the handle doesn’t fit both. Does it attach to the fender somewhere?

Thanks in advance.

E643A0AB-B454-490F-B65B-7FFF096D52EE.jpeg



Next I will work on the hydraulics - need to give it another go and try to get it working - somewhat essential!!!!

I am sure it is something simple…. Famous last words….

Sven
 

Hotrodelectric

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it’s been a good couple of weeks - all the panels are prepped and finished! The seal holders from the UK arrived, so I welded them onto the remaining doors and finished the filler and sanding work.

I primed the bonnet, inside and out with 2-pac epoxy and applied some filler over the two dented area that I was able to straighten previously.

View attachment 136015

I applied a few coats of stone guard into the wheel wells of the front and rear fenders. Not the original brushstroke look, but more even and with better coverage

View attachment 136016

The bottom of the doors received some seam sealer that resembles the original look.

View attachment 136017

Well - and here they all are - ready for the final step. High build primer and top coat.

View attachment 136018

After two hours of vacuuming the whole garage, all shelves and the car itself I could finally move onto the more fun bits again. It is surprising how fine the sanding dust is and where it settles… bloody everywhere😩

After installing the front seat’s backrest covers, I installed the front seats onto its extended rails. As the seats are now about 120mm further back than they would normally be, I removed the stoppers for the foldable rear seat again - the seat was fouling on them. I won’t need them as I won’t be able to fold the seat flat forward anyway now with he seats that far back.


View attachment 136019

One outstanding job was to adjust the rear brake pads. As I don’t have the proper tool, I dollied one up - made from a couple of clamps and a square… worked ok (I hope - still got to get the hydraulics to work before I know for sure..)

View attachment 136020

I polished the ID hubcaps that I bought from Citroen Andre - I love the blingy bits of the car..😄

View attachment 136021

So, time to put the wheels on and have a look - love it. Really like the simplicity of the ID rims and caps.

I checked the front wheel alignment with a long steel box section. The steering clamp needed a bit of adjustment. Not sure the alignment is right yet, but at least it is symmetrical for now!

View attachment 136022

Next job was to fit the windscreen. But then I realised that I first needed to install another section on the inside of the screen, between the dash and the screen. That profile holds the dash top in place and channels the screen demister air onto the screen… as always: I had to take half the dash apart again to install that sucker….

The windscreen installation was then relatively straight forward. The new seal fit well, but the bottom seal, installed in its holder profile, needed some sealant to ensure no moisture can seep in.

the corners were sealed off with the usual
Mastic sausage under the seal profile.

The clap hand wipers are a bit of a joke I think… 😂. They barely wipe the screen (as a percentage of the total surface) … better not drive in the rain me thinks…😄 But they look cute…!

View attachment 136024

And to finish today’s blog: can anyone send me a photo or description how the handle is clipped into the frame? There is the golden clip, but also that little tab coming off the frame at say 45 degrees… but the handle doesn’t fit both. Does it attach to the fender somewhere?

Thanks in advance.

View attachment 136023


Next I will work on the hydraulics - need to give it another go and try to get it working - somewhat essential!!!!

I am sure it is something simple…. Famous last words….

Sven
I seriously cannot wait for this wagon to be done......
 

Roger Wilkinson

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The clap hand wipers are a bit of a joke I think… 😂. They barely wipe the screen (as a percentage of the total surface) … better not drive in the rain me thinks…😄 But they look cute…!

I have had three wiper failures in early Dees. Citroen must have known they were a bit dodgy: did you know the earliest DS had a backup manual handle for the windscreen wipers? The best description of a classic car I have ever read is that it is one where you regard windscreen wipes as a finite resource. Rain-x is your friend: windscreen wipes no longer required.

Bob is right about mounting the handle.

Roger
 

Buttercup

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I've done a lot of driving with clap hands wipers, and rather like them.
Because they are at rest on the flat part of the screen, and they are never asked to wrap around the curve, they don't lose contact, leaving unwiped patches.
The later parallel ones, in the RHD setup, fail miserably on the curve of the drivers side.
On most of my Dees, I have fitted slightly longer blades to cover a bit more area.
 

bleudanube

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I seriously cannot wait for this wagon to be done......
Neither can I… it is super satisfying bolting on new and shiny parts, getting them to work and seeing the result of two years of weekend toiling.

thanks Bob and Roger re the handle… DOH, if that’s all it is I can manage 😂. It was getting late yesterday…. I did read about the manual handle somewhere - great job for an annoying passenger. The Willys Jeep had the same setup and probably many other cars of that era.

Longer wiper blades might be a good idea as mine don’t even overlap… although I believe they should. Anyway, I will stay away from rain and wet roads for a while to not get the car dirty… at least at the beginning.
 

IDear

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I think that overlapping wipers are a bit modern. I agree with Bob that the early wipers sit on the screen more tidy. If you overlap them, one will end up sitting proud from the bottom of the windscreen.
Brother John places a cork under his "modern" wiper when parked to avoid the short contact area "flattening" the blade.
Michael
 
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