My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

Hotrodelectric

Now go make me a sandwich
I've not really considered a measurement.
Just so its not rubbing...
Although if it rubs a little on new shoes, it won't do so for long.
The way I've always heard it was you want the shoes to just barely touch- think "mooooom! he's touching meeeeee!!" touch.
 

citroenut

Member
Don't forget to connect the small earth strap from the distributor body to the block. It will work initially without it but later will cause untold frustration trying to find the intermittent misfiring . Don't ask how I know !
Richard
 

bleudanube

Active member
Don't forget to connect the small earth strap from the distributor body to the block. It will work initially without it but later will cause untold frustration trying to find the intermittent misfiring . Don't ask how I know !
Richard
Yep, is attached to the dip stick bolt.
 

bleudanube

Active member
If there is one good thing that comes from lockdown, it is that you get a lot done.

I preparation of getting the front seats back at some stage, I installed the seat rail extensions - they give me 120mm more legroom, which should be sufficient for my long legs... and still leave decent rear legroom. They are made from 50x10 flat bar, so plenty of strength in them and they use the existing mounting points.

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After a bit of fiddling, and of course mismatching the left and right clock work, I got the brake callipers assembled.

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I continued to bolt on the ancillary items: waterpump, hydraulic pump, fuel pump, exhaust manifold, cross brace, carbie, , starter motor , hoses, etc.

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Well, then it was time to lift the bugger into place. I had to remove the battery tray and spheres again to have enough access.

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Organised myself a couple of slaves to assist guiding the engine onto its mounts. 😬 The engine went in without a hitch, and not a dirty hand in sight.

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The installation of the last hydraulic pipes was of course a pain, access is tight and for some you seem to need a third joint in the hand...

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Next were clutch and handbrake cables, power steering rack and its associated piping and attaching the drive shafts.

The steering rack still needs setting up and aligning to the steering column. Faulksy, you wouldn’t have the alignment tool as well by any chance. (Just checked the manual... the second nose cars don’t seem to ask for any alignment tool to fit the steering column to the rack... maybe only the later cars need it???)

Again, it all looks very tight with clutch and handbrake cable nearby... we will see.

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Faulksy, I might also need your brake adjustment tool after all - testing the handbrake didn’t operate the clockwork mechanism properly... have to have another go at it.

And then I cracked two of the pipes off the plastic 4-way distributor for the return lines. Too old, too brittle. Crap access too, now that the engine is in place. Anyway, minor setback...

And finally... degree of difficulty 9.8: the heat shield installation... what a bastard that is. No idea how they installed this in the factory. Maybe they installed the rear engine mounts onto the engine first, then the exhaust manifold, then the heat shield - and then somehow weaseled the engine into place. And then installed the steering housing as it only has a millimeter of clearance. Took me probably two hours to get that sucker into place.


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Well, it is starting to look like a car again - almost... 😊. But there is still plenty to do: All the outer panels need to be blasted, repaired and painted, electrics to be finished, glass, lights and door mechanisms installed, new tyres fitted - and then get the whole thing to actually work, drive, brake ...and not leak. Months of fun ahead. 👍

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Sven
 
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Buttercup

Well-known member
Excellent work Sven.

Re the clockwork brakes......

I consider the mechanism to be beautifully designed, functional and reliable.
However it requires quite a bit of study to properly understand it, and then adjust it so it can work.
The little ratchet clickers need to be free and lubricated, and the little springs need to work well.
The operation of the automatic adjusters requires adjustment of the eccentric bushes that stop the main arms in the return position.
So the motion of the arms will trigger the ratchet at both ends of the arm movement. However the arm should not return much further than the trigger position, as this is wasted lever movement

Then cable adjustment must be correct, so the arms can return to the stops.
The cross cable has a correct length, and once adjusted correctly it should never be changed. The main cable must also be adjusted so both arms return to their stops.
There is always the tendency to adjust the cable too tight, so the arms don't return fully.
In my experience, if these key adjustments are correct, the system works well and reliably.
Failure to adjust automatically should be addressed, not just use the adjusting tool, because that negates the automatic function.
 

bleudanube

Active member
Excellent work Sven.

Re the clockwork brakes......

I consider the mechanism to be beautifully designed, functional and reliable.
However it requires quite a bit of study to properly understand it, and then adjust it so it can work.
The little ratchet clickers need to be free and lubricated, and the little springs need to work well.
The operation of the automatic adjusters requires adjustment of the eccentric bushes that stop the main arms in the return position.
So the motion of the arms will trigger the ratchet at both ends of the arm movement. However the arm should not return much further than the trigger position, as this is wasted lever movement

Then cable adjustment must be correct, so the arms can return to the stops.
The cross cable has a correct length, and once adjusted correctly it should never be changed. The main cable must also be adjusted so both arms return to their stops.
There is always the tendency to adjust the cable too tight, so the arms don't return fully.
In my experience, if these key adjustments are correct, the system works well and reliably.
Failure to adjust automatically should be addressed, not just use the adjusting tool, because that negates the automatic function.
Fully agree that the system is a pretty cool design. I thought I had it set up ok as per manual when I had the callipers on the bench, but there are a couple of steps described where one is supposed to tension the spring loaded piston again the ratchet teeth with the tool... I don’t think my Phillips head screw driver did the job too well, hence the right tool may do it...

the eccentric bush is another one that I may not have right (yet). I am a bit more confident with the cable tensions - I followed the manual and it seems to match ok.

anyway, all part of the fun... I will get there.
 

faulksy

Active member
Think I've got two of those tools Sven so you're welcome to have one. The steering rack alignment tool can be made from a few pieces of timber if you don't fancy making it from steel. Alternatively if you've got big hands then you can get pretty close by just grabbing the steering column and rotating union in a firm grip to bring them level with each other. The more important measurement is the lateral position of the rack. It helps to leave the rack clamps slightly loose so you can rotate the rack.

There is a hole cut into the bottom of the battery tray that allows easy access to the rack's hydraulic connection.
 

Buttercup

Well-known member
Yes, the steering rack alignment tool can be very easily improvised.

The brake adjuster cannot.
I have made a few over the years, and to work well, they need to be quite precisely made.
The attempted use of a phillips screwdriver will usually damage the teeth of the adjuster wheel, which then makes it difficult to use the correct tool.
I've always been very particular about having the auto mechanism working, that way the adjuster tool is only needed to back them off at a pad change.
 

bleudanube

Active member
I think I got it now…

first I thought I had the ratchet wheel the wrong way round, but that was ok. What I did wrong was the alignment of the wheel to the ratchet and the spring loaded locking plunger…. I had the plunger straddling the ratchet AND the toothed part of the wheel, not sitting over the larger teeth of the wheel. Anyway, not hard to fix, adjustments then worked as did the eccentric stop adjustment.

handbrake is now working as it should and I can tighten all the carrier bolts and move onto other items. 👍
 

bleudanube

Active member
Long weekend, lockdown ‘finished’, so off to the shops to get oils and a few other items to progress the car.

A bit of evening entertainment was rewrapping the steering wheel. There are some good, easy to follow, instructions on the net, written up by Darrin from Citroen Classics in the UK.

once the wrap is tapered the start is easy. Keeping the tension all the way across takes a bit of focus, but I got the knack of it after a few tries to align / overlap the wraps the right way.

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The end is a bit trickier: keeping the tension while overlapping the wrap a little more to finish in exactly the right spot to taper off the wrap end and then poke it into the hole… took a couple of attempts, but the result looks fantastic: I like the look of the beige wrap a lot more than the black. It’s a bit like the ivory steering wheels of the early Mercedes… stylish!

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I almost thought I outsmarted myself trying to fit the gear change cable after fitting the engine and the black steering housing beforehand… it was by millimeters that I could flex the cable and push it through the hole in the frame while shoving the rod towards the gear shifter. Phew, close… the adjustment was a bit weird… 39.3 mm off the horizontal off the bottom of the housing. A socket and washer did the job!

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Apparently there are first nose and second nose Marchal auxiliary lights… mine must be first nose as they don’t fit as well as required. So I spent a bit of time shaving off the bottom of the housing to close the gaps to the fender shape. A new gasket cut from spongy neoprene should be sufficient to seal the gaps once installed.


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Replacing the seat back covers was an easy job and didn’t take long. I have to chase up the trimmer how he is going with my front seats and door cards.

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Now that the engine is in place, time to move onto the exhaust. A new exhaust must have been fitted not long before the car was laid up, stainless pipes and a new muffler with DS Motors written on it still visible.

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Besides being a bit awkward working upside down, the installation was easy.

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Radiator, fan and piping now all in place. Engine filled with oils, coolant next once I get hold of the last missing heater hose.

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And because mechanical things are easy I thought I give the electrics a go and fault find a few items that aren’t working as intended.

first and most annoying were the interior lights in combination with the door switches: it took me ages to find the error I made. The taillight housing is the single wire type. So the screws that hold the fitting ground the light - and the two b pillar lights as well. Once I fixed the grounding issue the door switches (almost) worked as intended. One switch is still causing a bit of intermittent trouble.

then onto the indicator switch : a tricky contraption that didn’t show any sign of life. Luckily it was easy to disassemble and I found a broken rivet that in turn dislodged one of the bi metal switches. I had a whole stash of bits a pieces from Michael, so after a bit of searching, cleaning and matching and mixing I found enough parts to make one good switch. Time to test it: worked a treat! 👍

what a great design - it turns off after 10 times automatically! Very clever.

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Full of confidence I moved onto stop/rear and rear indicator lights - all working as intended.

horn and fanfare are bloody loud and a nice town & country setup.

parking, low and high beam needed a bit of fiddling, but it all worked out in the end.

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There is only one item that doesn’t seem to work as intended: if I remember correctly, flicking the white light switch forward should turn on high beam as a “flasher”… but I get no high beam when no lights are on and when low or high beam are on and I flick the switch forward, the lights turn off…. More to contemplate.

otherwise all good, the outer panels are off to the blaster this week, so I can start work on repairing those before I get too far on the rest of the car.

And I might even try to start the car next weekend…. Exciting and unnerving at the same time. How many leaks will I find!?

Sven
 

Ramaling

Member
Sven,
I'm about to start on a project with my DS23 and am very interested in how you clean all your parts and then get the nickel plating finishes looking so good so I have a few questions on your processes.
On the basis that old Citroens seem make more oil than they ever use or consume, how do you go about cleaning things. I don't want to have a lot of mess and contaminated ground around my shed so how do your clean and dispose of all the degreased gunk. Do you have a grease and oil trap?
Are you getting all the parts "re-nickeled". How are they looking so good? This concerns many of the nuts, bolts and washers in particular but also right down to the parts around the brake calipers. They all look so good! Pl;ease share the secrets of your methods
 

IDear

Member
Took the '62 Slough Safari to Trentham on Sunday.
You have been working steadily on your '63 Safari for quite some time Sven.
Not having experienced an ID Safari, you really have something to look forward to.
Yes, you did up the Short Stroke DS but these old IDees really are fun to drive ............. a very differant experience to the later DS.
As I drove mine on Sunday, it's 3rd gear through the hills and bends and then a straight stretch and into fourth and you put your foot down and you're up at the speed limit of 110 with the suspension soaking up the bad road conditions.
Yes it's differant and you need to adjust your attitude but once you are comfortable and and accept the ID as something unique ........................ "you'll love it !
Michael
 

bleudanube

Active member
All right folks, I received my last two missing parts to finish off the hydraulics and engine this weekend…. So:

might be time to give it a go and see whether the engine runs and the hydraulics move - and how many leaks I might find…

I will take the pump belts off at first to concentrate on the engine, but assuming I will get it to run ok, the hydraulics are next.

regarding the hydraulics: as the system is completely empty, are there any points to watch?

- fill up the reservoir (put in the whole 6 litres?)
- set hydraulics on high
- prime the pump
- open the accumulator ( or leave it closed?)
- bleed brakes front and back
- keep an eye on the reservoir and keep it topped up
- what else?

the car is still on stands… does the car have to sit on its wheels to operate/fill/bleed/run the hydraulics?

Sven
 

Buttercup

Well-known member
With the suction hose fitted to the pump, and the inlet strainer body, pull the inlet strainer body up out of the tank, turn it upside down. Remove the strainer, use the body as a filling funnel, and when it's almost full, put another 4 litres in the tank.
Fit the strainer into the body, and quickly invert it into the tank.
With the bleed screw open, Start it up.
Leave the reg bleed screw open for a couple of minutes, until no bubbles come back into the tank, then close it.
Check for leaks, top up the tank to a bit above normal level of needed.
At this stage it doesn't really matter about the height lever. I would probably have the car on stands, with the lever on low. This helps when checking the power steering, just turn it lock to lock a few times. With the car on stands for this, you can check the free movement of the steering and set the stops.
Then put the suspension on high and remove the stands. Work the height lever full up, full down several times. Check for leaks, check the tank level.
Then work the brake valve a couple of times to start to fill it and the lines.
Then open the reg bleed again for a minute or two, to be double sure that there is no air in the main system.
Close the bleed screw, check for leaks, check tank level.
Then do a full brake bleed.
Check the front and rear heights. To adjust the front you need ramps, pit or hoist. The rear can be done with the car on the floor via the boot.
Balance the front anti roll bar.

That should be it. After a few days I would do another regulator bleed and another brake bleed.
After using the brakes a bit they should settle quickly, and the auto adjusters will probably come up another click.

Exciting times!
 

bleudanube

Active member
With the suction hose fitted to the pump, and the inlet strainer body, pull the inlet strainer body up out of the tank, turn it upside down. Remove the strainer, use the body as a filling funnel, and when it's almost full, put another 4 litres in the tank.
Fit the strainer into the body, and quickly invert it into the tank.
With the bleed screw open, Start it up.
Leave the reg bleed screw open for a couple of minutes, until no bubbles come back into the tank, then close it.
Check for leaks, top up the tank to a bit above normal level of needed.
At this stage it doesn't really matter about the height lever. I would probably have the car on stands, with the lever on low. This helps when checking the power steering, just turn it lock to lock a few times. With the car on stands for this, you can check the free movement of the steering and set the stops.
Then put the suspension on high and remove the stands. Work the height lever full up, full down several times. Check for leaks, check the tank level.
Then work the brake valve a couple of times to start to fill it and the lines.
Then open the reg bleed again for a minute or two, to be double sure that there is no air in the main system.
Close the bleed screw, check for leaks, check tank level.
Then do a full brake bleed.
Check the front and rear heights. To adjust the front you need ramps, pit or hoist. The rear can be done with the car on the floor via the boot.
Balance the front anti roll bar.

That should be it. After a few days I would do another regulator bleed and another brake bleed.
After using the brakes a bit they should settle quickly, and the auto adjusters will probably come up another click.

Exciting times!
Thank you Bob - excellent description and easy to follow… let’s see what happens…
 
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