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My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

bleudanube

Active member
I'm sure to have another one of those speedos here if your stuck. They alll suffer in the way of yours though. You can't can't go anywhere near the text!
Chris has offered to see what he can do re a sticker, but if you have another speedo (maybe even with the clock?) that would certainly be of interest...
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
I don't think any of the aussie cars have a clock. I'll see what is there in dashes. I should ahve several (so long as didn't pull them all apart :rolleyes: ).
 

bleudanube

Active member
Question, maybe I am blind... but I have been through the repair manuals and I cannot find any data for the piston and barrel measurements and tolerances or ring gaps.

would anyone have those measurements?
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Question, maybe I am blind... but I have been through the repair manuals and I cannot find any data for the piston and barrel measurements and tolerances or ring gaps.

would anyone have those measurements?

This sounds just like me with the traction gearbox.... Someone will then list the page number/etc...... And I'll realise I've read straight past it a dozen times :)

Have you downloaded a copy of the spare parts manual ? These may well be in the spare parts manual. All of these manuals are available for download if you haven't found them yet :dance:
 

bleudanube

Active member
Question, maybe I am blind... but I have been through the repair manuals and I cannot find any data for the piston and barrel measurements and tolerances or ring gaps.

would anyone have those measurements?

well, no luck with the spare parts manual either - so: would anyone have a source for the piston and barrel tolerances and ring gaps...

appreciate any help!
 

bleudanube

Active member
A bit more progress made over the long weekend:

first job: cleaning up the cylinder head and checking whether the Valves seal up ok. The good news is that all eight valves seal up well and ‘hold water’. Carbon build up was minimal.

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next step will be to remove the valves and check the guides and seals.

While I am waiting for my valve compressor to be delivered, I moved onto the roof. Cleaned up the old foam layer from the headliner, welded up the antenna hole, repaired the broken front edge and tidied up a few dents.

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The horns were in decent condition, the only question for the experts: did the car have two horns like I have or one horn and one fanfare? If fanfare, does anyone have a photo of what they looked like?

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Cleaned up John’s US rear suspension cylinders that he shipped to me. Thanks John! Appreciate your help. Will put in new seals and they are good to go. One more issue solved.

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The next lot of goodies has also arrived from the UK. Always ‘interesting’ how expensive a few rubber and metal parts can be....

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One item I will need at some stage is the steel insert for the cant rail rubber... would anyone have an old one lying around anywhere?

Working on the carburettor was next. Next episode...
 

bleudanube

Active member
Carburettor overhaul: a nice project will lots of small, fiddly bits.

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The intake elbow was, same as the cylinder head, also nicely crusty from old coolant residue.

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I was contemplating buying an ultrasonic cleaner, but found that leaving the parts in a 50/50 mix of CLR and warm water plus scrubbing with a toothbrush and wire brush did the job just as well. The body came up super clean, as did all the jets, airways and linkages.

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But, as always when you pull it all apart, thinking you got photos of everything you need, there is some info missing. Which jet goes where again?

Weber manual: no help as it doesn’t describe the jet sizes... so: I hope someone has done this before: I have a 150 and a 160 jet in the top of the housing. I have put the larger 160 into the larger butterfly stack and the 150 towards the smaller one - correct? Does anyone know?

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Same question for the other two air jets on the side - there is a larger orifice jet and a smaller one - again I followed my logic as above: more fuel or air to the larger diameter stack... advice appreciated.

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Came up well. Just need to sort the adjustment and jets out.

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And then, last job of the day, I broke one of the choke rod clips.... grrrrr! Would anyone have one? Or are they still available to buy?

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Interestingly the ID parts manual doesn’t cover the carburettor at all - is there a supplement Weber manual that would explain the setup, parts and adjustment?
Sven
 

gsowner84

Member
Hi Sven

Can I just mention how incredible it is to see you at work during this time. It is a credit to you and I am just blown away.

Fantastic job, wish I had half the skill and patience that you have.

Thank you.

Syd
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
What motor is that? A long stroke motor (oddly space plug holes) ..... internal inlet manifold, yet a double choke carby. I dont' think I've ever seen that combination before! Is it a DS19 motor ?
 

Nigel

Member
- Sven

These should help - the full file is too big to post. They're for a 24 32 DDC.

- Nigel
 

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bleudanube

Active member
Hi Sven, Yes - I think you've got all of those jets the right way round. I'm basing my opinion on an expectation that yours is a Weber 24/32 DDCA1 carb. If you follow this link and look up the two pages that cover that carb, page 1 shows the jets (parts 23, 23A, 33 and 33A) and which sides they fit. page 2 shows the sizes for these jets/ parts.

Budge

thanks Budge and Nigel - found the same page last night, looks like my jet placement was right after all - thanks for confirming it.

Syd, patience is definitely the key. I am somewhat glad we were in lockdown for that many weekends, so the choice was an easy one to work on the Safari. Once regional travel is back in the cards from next week onwards, the other toys will want some attention and progress may slow down a little.

Double Chevron:

The engine is a DW model. Seems to be original to the 1964 Safari, with Weber 24/32 ddca1 carbie, camshaft balancer pulley and domed pistons. I think the DS/ID19 had the same one at some stage. Should have 80hp...
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IDear

Member
Those horns are correct. They all come in pairs, being bolted to one bracket. The tones are ofcourse differant to give you that distinct Citroen sound.
I've recently put a pair behind the grill of the Series 3 Landrover.
I doubt that you'll find a speedo that doesn't have the "wonky" numbers. Over time, the "paint" has become very fragile.
The French ID which I sold to Clyde in Hamilton had a temperature gauge but I have never had one that has the clock.
The "Auckland Embassy" 1966 ID19 Confort which we brought over from NZ had the same engine/carby set-up. This model was the up-market ID. It had the harmonic balancer on the rear of the engine. I think your Safari has this. The ID that Tim (Middlemoon) has just taken on could also be one of these set-ups. That's what makes these IDees so special.
The 1967 ID that has recently come up for sale, probably has the short stroke motor which makes the driving experience very differant.
Michael
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
My ID19 has that motor .... I should try and chase up a twin choke carby for it .... It might be 65hp rather than 60hp then :ROFLMAO:
 

bleudanube

Active member
First small job of the day: fix the rod clip for the carburettor... first attempt was to try and weld it back together, using a copper block to dissipate the heat quickly.

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Well, didn’t work as planned... broke again once I started grinding down the weld. So, plan B - make a new one. After all it doesn’t have to do a lot. Just keep the rod in place.

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that worked well and looks pretty original.

Next job was to remove and check the valves, now that my removal tool has arrived.

The intake valves were all ok, the outlet valves were however badly crusted and needed a fair bit of wire brushing.
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strangely the exhaust valves don’t have a valve seal, the intakes however do: but they don’t look like any valve seal I have ever seen... it is just a square seal that is pushed onto the end of the valve stem.

Here a photo of the old one on the right and (I think) the new ones from the gasket kit on the leftThey seem really poxy and somewhat useless...

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question: where should they sit on the valve stem? Is there a measurement from the top? The manuals don’t mention it. Are those actually the right seals in the first place?

Should they sit on the recessed section, just below the cotter pins? Or further down towards the valve guide? Does anyone know?
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The remainder of the day was spent tidying up the engine main block - cleaning out the coolant crud, unblocking drains and galleries and scraping out decades of old grease and oil.

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if someone could help me with the valve seal positioning that would be appreciated.

Sven
 

citroenthusiast

Active member
The original long stroke seals are not much of a seal. They are more of an umbrella to cause the oil that hits the "seal" to drip on the outside of the guide rather than running down the stem. Basically, you push them all the way on until they hit the top of the valve guide. The first time the valve opens it will push the "seal" to the proper spot.
 

bleudanube

Active member
The original long stroke seals are not much of a seal. They are more of an umbrella to cause the oil that hits the "seal" to drip on the outside of the guide rather than running down the stem. Basically, you push them all the way on until they hit the top of the valve guide. The first time the valve opens it will push the "seal" to the proper spot.

funny that! I thought that might be the case, but then I thought: surely not, it’s got to be a bit more sophisticated that that... well, looks like I was wrong and the French used a very agricultural method. Will install as you mentioned John, appreciate the quick feedback.
 

Budge

Member
The early five bearing engines had those seals too. Completely different concept to the later seals that 'cap' and seal the valve stems. I can't see how the older type work art all! Interestingly, when the valves seals changed to the later type, Citroen still kept the original part number i think. (May have to check that....).
 

bleudanube

Active member
It’s been a while... now that lockdown in Melbourne is over I of course had to spend the weekends driving through the countryside. Very enjoyable, especially the SMOG run with the SM owners group - a great bunch of guys and ladies.

in the meantime I dropped off the engine parts with the machine shop, more parts to the powder coater and had my rear bumper repaired (someone attached the wrong tow bars and cut a section out of the bumper - got a small cover made up that looks the part).

I also got the headlights back from Hyqual in Queensland. Not cheap ($100 each) but they have done a marvellous job. Looking forward to assembling the headlights and the Marchal auxiliary lights again. Below the before a

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Ordered some high temp Dupli Color British Racing Green for the engine block, pulley and ancillary bits... a nice dark green.

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Now that my 46mm tube spanner arrived, pulling the brake disks and gearbox housings apart was easy. The rubber mounts all need to be replaced, but the bearings and seals were still in good order. So, clean up and reassembly - as always Citroen has been a bit tricky... one housing / shaft is 5mm longer. Easy to miss.

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Otherwise I worked my way through a raft of small parts that needed cleaning and painting... rewarding to see them all come back to life.

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Polishing the rear lens holders was a bit of a PITA - not easy to get access into all the little crevices. But they ended up looking very nice and shiny. Am still trying to find a way to protect polished aluminium from oxidising - has any has any luck with any product? Clear coating takes too much of the shine off.

Photos on the next blog. 10 photos max...

Sven
 

bleudanube

Active member
Here the lens holder photos:

Before - badly corroded and filthy.

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A little better, eh?

Next one on the list is the power steering rack that I got from Andrew. The two bellows and the cover over the hydraulics need to be replaced, the rest is apparently working ok. Also got the correct relays for power steering as well now.

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Next week the chassis will finally go to the painter. I should have it back before the Christmas break, which will be a major milestone. Then I can finally start bolting things back on!

Sven
 
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