Matts 505 Project

[mlb]

Considering the details of my pain and suffering with this project has seemingly disappeared into the ether - although I have managed to find some cached pages of it - I thought I would pretty much start where I left off. So here briefly is what happened since I started reassembling the engine.

The issue of the timing cover was the ring around the front pulley becoming dislodged, so I needed a way to resecure it. As it was still able to be threaded on, I wound it on and secured it with Permatex.

Whilst waiting for the permatex to go off I started adding the ancillaries.

When refitting the distributor remember that the drive has a large and small half which must match that on the drive shaft. Be aware, depending how precise you were with cam/crank/distributor alignment you may have to move the spark leads around a couple of places - you want the rotor pointing towards the lead for the cylinder that's at TDC with both valves closed.

I can post pictures of the drive end if needed for reference.

When it comes to the bottom gasket for the carb, as I'm running a Weber ADM off an XE Falcon I had to do some cutting to make sure the openings in the gasket weren't smaller than the barrels

Not long after I got everything else back on and it was ready to come off the stand. And I managed to do it before the sun went down. Not bad considering that I didn't make a start until I got home from work about 5ish. I think all up it took about 2 hours.

It's a good idea too whilst the engine is sitting at TDC to reconfirm the alignment of the TDC mark on the timing plate.

Then it was off the stand and refitting the flywheel and the clutch - making sure that it's all aligned for ease of fitting.

Then it became a battle to get the engine back in. Considering I was doing it alone and under floodlights. After about an hour of lifting, jacking, twisting, etc the engine and the box came together. I got the allen bolts started between the bellhousing and block, but restricted access meant a shorter allen key would be required and as I didn't think the neighbours would appreciate me cutting one with a grinder that time of night I left it until the next day.

I figured while I was on a roll I'd continue to reassemble what I could. As I was putting the radiator in I remembered that I had bought a new temperature switch, so put that in while I was at it. Good thing I remembered then as it would have been a pain with the radiator in the car.

By about 10:30 it was pretty much all in.

So the only things to do the following day was tighten up the bellhousing and engine mount bolts, fit the starter motor and flywheel cover, and fill with fluids. Then it would be good to go. With a day to spare before the hillclimb.

 

[mlb]

So the next day I did all that was required and started her up. Well tried to, but found that the fuel pump had died. Luckily I had a spare which luckily worked a treat and after some twisting of the distributor she came to life. I set the timing so she would idle smoothly and wound the speed to about 2,500 rpm and let it get up to temperature. Every now and then I would give her a good series of high revs to help the rings bed in. I let her get up until the fans came in so I knew that the new switch was fine and the fan was up to the task. A quick up and down the street confirmed no worrying noises or vibrations - besides the flat spots on the tyres :blackeye"

I tuned her as per spec, then switched off and let things cool down while I emptied the boot of parts and tools. While she was still reasonably warm I ran a quick compression test and got about 160-170 across the cylinders. Not too bad considering the rings hadn't yet bedded in and that the battery was getting a bit tired by then. Hopefully when the rings bed in more those pressures would come up - maybe about 180-200.

I then took the car for a good run around town and along the highway to see how it compared with the 240 in it. To be honest I wasn't that impressed, it didn't idle that well and seemed to take a bit to get it up and going. Even putting the foot down didn't give a huge amount of acceleration. I just put it down to a tight engine and the more aggressive cam, hence the lack of power down low. After giving the car a wash I went home and thought I would pop the bonnet and see if the slight rattle I could hear was coming from the engine. It was then I found that the sparkplug lead on #4 had come off. Obviously it didn't go back properly after the compression test

So I put the lead back on and went for a run. Quiet, smooth, and pretty quick. Much more like what I was expecting.

Only a couple of little problems, there's a slight coolant weep around the exhaust side of the head gasket - which was there before I pulled the engine out and hoped the rebuild would fix it. I may try retorquing the head and see how that goes. There is also a bit of an oil leak from the sump surround gasket between it and the block. I put it down to the cork gasket compressing and some of the bolts could be nipped up a further 1/2 turn or so. Of course where the bulk of the oil is coming from is where those few bolts reside under the sump pan. So an oil drain is required to tighten the bolts.

But besides that, all was good. Car ran well, temperature kept under control on the road, although I'm not too sure about the efficiency of the electric fan as when relying on it solely for cooling the temp is a bit higher than I would like.

Then the next day was the hillclimb - coming up next.

 

[mlb]

So then the next morning I headed off towards the hillclimb venue. 1.6km of gravel road behind Burnie, with a lovely moderate jump about 3/4 the way up. Throughout the whole trip the car didn't miss a beat and it arrived and passed scrutineering with no hassles.

So there it was sitting on the start line with less than 100kms on the new engine, and about to have the living crap flogged out of it. I conservatively set the shift light at 5,500 rpm initially so as not to blow things up on the first run, but by the second corner it was obvious that that wouldn't be high enough as it was constantly on. Shifting at that revs out of second caused it to bog down in third, so I cranked it up another 500. The engine didn't seem to mind and just kept pushing.

It became evident after the first run the although the engine was great, it was let down by the rest of the car. Running a normal non-PS rack meant way too many turns to get anything done, and if things got out of shape there was a flurring of flying hands trying to get it back under control. The steering was very light and i didn't seem to have as much feel as I would have liked. Definitely needs tightening up - I'm thinking a 2:1 steering quickener might be the order of the day.

The suspension also seemed pretty floaty although I'm not sure if that was made seemingly worse due to the steering and the high seating height from the GTi seats. Running road tyres on gravel didn't help either I'm sure. Here's a pic of the car going over the jump where the amount of suspension travel is obvious.

I didn't feel I could push it as hard as I would have liked as I wasn't confident that I could get it back on track if things went too far. I was happy with the brakes though - as I found out once approaching the hairpin. I had my left foot hovering over the brake in readniess, when I decided maybe throwing it back to first would be a good idea. So I thrust my left foot down, forgetting where it was, and the car pretty much stood on its nose.

Pretty much all of the runs saw the engine sitting above 6,000 rpm and there seemed to be no issues at all. It still felt grunty and responsive at those high revs. On the 5th run however I was about half way up when there was a bit of a clunk and both the alternator and Stop light came on. I backed off momentarily and checked everything thing else was okay and just put it down to a fan belt coming off. So I planted it and kept going, confident that there was enough power in the battery to see me to the end of the run. When I crossed the line I popped the bonnet and found the front pulley and belt sitting on the ledge behind the radiator. The nut on the end of the crank had come off

So we all made our way back to the pits and when I pulled up a bit of steam was coming from under the bonnet. I thought maybe the pulley had hit the radiator when it came off, but then it dawned on me. The bloody water pump also runs off the fan belt I quickly turned on the ignition and checked the coolant temperature. It was high, but not disastrously so. Whew :disappr:

So then I had two options. Call for a trailer home, or come up with a way to jury rig it to make the 60km drive home. The chance of finding the nut and key on the gravel track was so negligible I didn't even bother. The best solution I came up with - after a few false starts - was to just use the tension in the belt to hold it on to the crank. Being a close fit it and the low load on the belt meant it wouldn't be a big problem. I just wasn't keen on the pulley walking itself off and falling to the road at 110 km/h on the way home. So as a preventer I bent the timing plate into the inner groove of the pulley, just to stop it should it begin to walk off. I also figured that should the crank start to slip inside the pulley, the friction would cause it to expand and grip tighter.

Regardless of the flawed logic behind it all, it held up throughout the drive home. There was no hint of glow from the alternator light, nor did the temperature rise above that expected for a highway run, and I made it safely the full 60km home. Funnily enough the final run where the 'issue' occurred was my second fastest run of the day - only 0.6 seconds slower than my fastest.

So some things to fit as a result of the day. Refit the front pulley of course - and Loctite it on this time - fix the fluid leaks, I also found the brake master cylinder leaking now too so that will have to be done. I'll also put in a steering quickener at some stage, and before the the next hillclimb in a month I'll put a thicker rear sway bar on. I would also like to find some firmer seats which would allow me to sit lower too - at the moment my helmet is rubbing on the roof lining.

But all in all it was a successful day. The engine survived and i was happy with the way it performed. Considering I had a completely dismantled block a week before, I'm pretty chuffed with the way things turned out.

Matt

EDIT: Oh plus I really must thank a certain Athenian who kept me going in the lead up to the event and gave me the drive to complete the car. Not for his advice or support though, moreso the knowledge that he would never let me forget it if I didn't make it in time

 

[mlb]

So for those who came in late, this is what's been done to the 505 so far.

- Wade 240 cam timed as per Wade's specs
- Vernier timing sprocket
- Skimmed head to give CR of about 10.2:1 and all combustion chamber volumes equalised by hand
- Weber 32ADM carb of an XE Falcon
- Electronic ignition arrangement off a 505 SLi
- Engine driven cooling fan replaced with electric fan
- Patented 'mlb quikshift' on the gearbox
- Front springs reduced by one turn using the 'greek cowboy' method
- Mi16 steering wheel
- Big tacho and shift light
- GTi Interior

Planned improvements
- Crane High Energy Electronic Ignition
- Weber 40IDF downdraft car with Ramflo air cleaner
- Oil pressure, oil temperature, and coolant temperature gauges
- Modifications to exhaust eliminating front muffler or just dumping to the side
- 2:1 steering quickener
- Suspension modifications - specs yet to be decided
- Stiffer and lower seating with harness

It's a pity that the old thread has gone, but these things happen.

Matt

 

[COL]

Hi Matt

Sounds like you have got the GR sorted out engine wise. Just need to sort out the steering and suspension to handle the power you now have. I will have to bring my new R12 along and compare the performance when i get my engine sorted

 

[David S]

Matt, I've managed to find only pages 1,2,4,5,8,13,15,16,17 of your original thread #58731. Are these what you'd managed to find?

 

[mlb]

Matt, I've managed to find only pages 1,2,4,5,8,13,15,16,17 of your original thread #58731. Are these what you'd managed to find?

Thanks David,

That seems about right. I'm not on the same PC that I have it all saved on, but those numbers look familiar. If there's any extra pages I'll shoot them through.

Matt

 

[mlb]

So it's been a while. I parked the car in the drive after the hillclimb, and there it stayed. So I pulled my finger out and actually started work on it today.

Main thing was to get the harmonic balancer back on. When I took it off there was a bit of scoring on the end of the crank which made it almost impossible to put back on without excessive force. So it was obvious the timing cover would have to come off. To make things easier I unbolted the radiator which allowed me to put it towards the front and give me more room - without the need to drain the system. Once the timing cover came off I ran some fine emery paper around the crank to smooth things over until the pulley went on a bit easier. Once I was happy with the fit, I moved onto other things.

I also had a problem with a leaky sump gasket - as is typical it was from the region where the bolts do up from inside the sump. So I had to drain the oil and remove the sump pan. As expected the cork gasket had compressed a bit, so I had to nip up the bolts a bit. The amount I managed to tighten it explains the leak. Then the pan was refitted and the sump refilled. So far so good.

I refitted the timing cover and front pulley - with heaps of loctite and torque. I'm not relying on the torgue of the impact hammer this time. A pipe on the end of the bar meant there's no doubt it's tight. Fan belt refitted, the she was good to go.

The car started no worries, although the fast idle didn't seem to kick in. Looking at the choke mechanism explained why. The electric heating coil that closes the choke and bumps up the idle wasn't connected to the carby body. The two mounting screws had fallen out as a result of the long time sitting and the shaky runs up the hill. I simply replaced the screws and was back in business.

I'm yet to take it for a run again, but will hopefully get a chance tomorrow. A Gtech run might be in order, just so I can put a number on how much things have changed From memory I think I was getting 90 hp at the wheels, using the standard curb weight in the Gtech. It will be interesting to see if things are any better. Seat of the pants tells me yes, but i may be biased.

Once Ive got the car run in a bit more I'll look at putting the IDF on and seeing how that goes. I'll have to hunt down some spare parts for it first though.

Matt

 

[mlb]

So now an update. The car has pretty much sat in the drive since the last event. So I've fixed the small
oil leak and made sure the thing actually runs. I've taken out the rear seat as it was interfering with the harness a bit.

So there's an event tomorrow, a bit of a dash around the local kart track. Not sure about the cars suitability to the track. Having just taken a run around the block it feels a bit unsettling. Having been driving the Mi16 a lot the 505 feels so high and the body rolls too much for my liking. The steering is too light and when I put the foot down the car seems to lean back before it moves forward. Strangely these things didn't worry me when I was driving it more than once a year. No doubt I'll get used to it.

Although I am starting to think the Mi16 might be a better proposition. I'd only have to bolt the extinguisher in and I'll be set.

But that would be too easy wouldn't it

Matt

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Fitting engine.

I think I know the reason the engine was hard to mate up to the gearbox.
Those plastic aligning tools are useless, you're better off lining up the edge of the clutch plate by eye, look through the gaps in the pressure plate.
Best way of course is to get the input shaft off an unwanted gearbox.

By the way I'm bringing the 203 over for the Ken Roddam Rally in two weeks.
Graham

 

[mlb]

I think I know the reason the engine was hard to mate up to the gearbox.
Those plastic aligning tools are useless, you're better off lining up the edge of the clutch plate by eye, look through the gaps in the pressure plate.
Best way of course is to get the input shaft off an unwanted gearbox.

Thanks Graham,

I'm pretty sure it was all lined up. I used the aligning tool, then double checked visually. Where I think the problem came from the clutch plate being moved by the spigot on the input shaft. Doing it by myself, with a jack under the gearbox and the engine suspended on the crane meant alignment was a bit tricky and all up it took a bit longer than it would have if I had an extra pair of hands. At least it's in now, and (hopefully) won't be coming out for a while.

By the way I'm bringing the 203 over for the Ken Roddam Rally in two weeks.
Graham

I did notice your name on the entry list, although they did have you down as using the 205. I may see you out there somewhere as no doubt I'll be sitting on a control somewhere. Unless I get a ride, but I doubt it due to my trial navigation skills, or lack thereof.

Matt

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Thanks Graham,

I'm pretty sure it was all lined up. I used the aligning tool, then double checked visually. Where I think the problem came from the clutch plate being moved by the spigot on the input shaft. Doing it by myself, with a jack under the gearbox and the engine suspended on the crane meant alignment was a bit tricky and all up it took a bit longer than it would have if I had an extra pair of hands. At least it's in now, and (hopefully) won't be coming out for a while.


I did notice your name on the entry list, although they did have you down as using the 205. I may see you out there somewhere as no doubt I'll be sitting on a control somewhere. Unless I get a ride, but I doubt it due to my trial navigation skills, or lack thereof.

Matt

We won the last championship round in the 203 (pre 1968 is the HRA club championship class, done this way to encourage the earlier cars) I thought we might try and get some more points.
The 203 is probably better for the fairly tough conditions expected. After destroying a front tyre, one of only two that I had on a rock in the last round I'm getting some 5 inch by 15 rims made and fitting a pair of narrow and very chunky Colway rally tyres on the front, should go well in the mud!
I used one of the plastic tools when fitting a 205 clutch recently, was a real pain to have to drop the box, took two of us to lift it under the hoist, and redo the clutch alignment by eye.
Since then I've cut the input shaft off a dead box to use as an alignment tool.
Graham

 

[mlb]

We won the last championship round in the 203 (pre 1968 is the HRA club championship class, done this way to encourage the earlier cars) I thought we might try and get some more points.
The 203 is probably better for the fairly tough conditions expected. After destroying a front tyre, one of only two that I had on a rock in the last round I'm getting some 5 inch by 15 rims made and fitting a pair of narrow and very chunky Colway rally tyres on the front, should go well in the mud!

And while you're over here you may as well hang around for the Hellyer Rally a couple of weeks later. It'll introduce you to 'Tasmanian Rallying'. I think Derrick found it a bit of an experience last year

I used one of the plastic tools when fitting a 205 clutch recently, was a real pain to have to drop the box, took two of us to lift it under the hoist, and redo the clutch alignment by eye.
Since then I've cut the input shaft off a dead box to use as an alignment tool.
Graham

You should have heard the crying and swearing as we battled to mate the box to the engine during Targa last year. Did it by eye and took about 30-40 mins with two of us. The last thing you need at 5am after a day of competition and a night replacing the engine and straightening the car.

Matt

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

And while you're over here you may as well hang around for the Hellyer Rally a couple of weeks later. It'll introduce you to 'Tasmanian Rallying'. I think Derrick found it a bit of an experience last year



You should have heard the crying and swearing as we battled to mate the box to the engine during Targa last year. Did it by eye and took about 30-40 mins with two of us. The last thing you need at 5am after a day of competition and a night replacing the engine and straightening the car.

Matt

I was thinking of the Hellyer Rally but a bit too much on.
Graham

 

[mlb]

I was thinking of the Hellyer Rally but a bit too much on.
Graham

That's a pity. The Hellyer's a great event.

Although last years didn't go so well for us

 

[pugrambo]

That's a pity. The Hellyer's a great event.

Although last years didn't go so well for us

i didn't think you had to go to such extremes to get out of the competitors way :joker: