Many Fault Code for 2008, MY 2018 1.2Lt

Whippet

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Hi.

When driving the vehicle over the past few weeks an alert has displayed twice on the display behind the steering wheel saying from memory, "Engine or Vehicle fault - go to service centre" Interestingly the Navigation then displays the local service centres on the map to make it easier for you to navigate there.

The alert has diplayed twice over a period of 1,100km driving both highway and urban. When I continue to drive I have not noticed anything changed or not functioning or diminished power etc on the vehicle.

I don't have an OBDII reader, so in a moment of inspiration I dropped into Supercheap and paid $30 to have the codes read. I have attached the report here. After the initial read I asked for the codes to be deleted, and they waited while I did a lap around the block, and they the read the codes a second time. On this second read there were no codes present.

The report lists 44 fault codes under seven discret vehicle systems. Many of these relate to non cummunication over CAN bus / absence of a datastream issues, and, also supply voltage faults or outside of range.

44 fault codes does seem a lot and my suspicion is that there is a battery voltage issue, that may be causing these codes and also the in-dash alert. Is anyone able to provide some insight or possible cause to the many codes?

Note: the battery is original and has not been replaced. Vehicle was manufactured in May 2017, but Compliance plated in May 2018, (seems odd), so I am assuming that the battery is 5 1/2 years old. This vehicle also has the battery charge status ECU that controls the charging of the battery and the vehicle has a stop/start feature.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 

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sounds like the battery is the first step to me ,have it checked under load ,or wait and see if faults re occur ,5 and a half years and stop start feature ,must be close to its use by date 1
 
Hi dmccurtayne.

Thanks for your reply.

I have done this previously and the sight line to the rear of the cam belt through the oil filler aperture is limited and only part of the belt width is visible and at an oblique angle. Last time I looked all seemed well and my vehicle was in the serial number range of the recall.

I didn’t notice any fault code relating to the camshaft timing. But I accept you have more hand on experience with these engines than I do.

It’s dark now but I will have a look tomorrow. If straightforward I might even remove the cam cover to enable better acces to inspect the cam belt.

Regards.
 
It also has a low oil level fault. B1825-84.
Would low oil level have caused the low oil pressure?
 
Hi.

To correct a mistake on post #1, the engine VIN is not included in the recall range of serial numbers.

With vehicle recently driven and parked on a flat surface for five minutes, the engine oil level is 6mm below the "Max" mark on the dipstick. So I don't understand the low oil level fault code B1825-84. Maybe this is residual from a much earlier event? Vehicle has 70,000km on the odometer and is due for the 15,000km oil change at 75,000km.

Looking at the rear of the cam drive belt through the oil filler, I cannot observe any cracking, delamination, or other deteriation of the belt as per images below. I started and stoped the engine a few times, so that I could observe different parts of the belt, all similar.

The Engine Fault light and "Spanner" icon did come on again while driving last night, so that is three occasions now. So I might need to purchase an OBDII code reader and read whatever new code is stored. I have observed that it only comes on when accelerating.

I don't have access to the manufactures technical service bullitins, so am left with searching the internet for information.

The below site claims thet a different non shedding cam belt with the outer layer removed, was used in production during April 2017 and onwards, mine is a May 2017 producction. https://moparinsiders.com/community...ne-still-causes-concern-among-customers.3635/

This site claims that the sheeding of rubber/fiber particles from the rear surface of the cam belt is caused by petrol dilution of the engine oil degrading the belt, in vehicles that do mostly urban running and less than 15,000km per year. https://www.clubalfa.it/335082-psa-...o-provoca-ancora-preoccupazione-tra-i-clienti

The cam belt in my vehicle does not look like the images below:

I have previously (25,000km ago) removed the solenoid that controls the oil flow to the camshaft phasers to check for foreign particles and the gauze was clear and clean. Post #61 here: https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/i...ownership-feedback.134842/page-4#post-1758676
1670209715856.png
1670209827533.png
 
It would have to be pretty low the history of the 1.2 points to a blocked oil pickup due to a failed cam belt
Hi.

I tend to agree with you that this is the logical and likely cause of the low oil pressure code, and the cause being a blocked pickup screen/gauze. But the cam belt does not seem to be deteriated, and based on the information that I have been able to access, it seems that the cam belt specification was changed prior to the production of my vehicle, and my vehicle was outside of the recall range. Also the vehicle gets lots of regular freeway driving - weekly.

Maybe I need to remove the black plactic cover to have a better access to the cam belt to do a more thorough inspection? That will have to wait until later in the week. Vehicle has to travel another 350km until then.

Cheers.
 
I would start with a battery check as you are usually lucky to get 4 years out of them and you have many odd faults in there that could be phantom battery issues. There may also be an issue with the voltage monitoring device, but more likely the battery . Get it load tested by someone with something like a Midtronics tester - your dealer will. A multimeter isn't really enough as it can't always show up a weak battery.
Don't delete or ignore the P15A1 fault, particularly if it's recent. Visit your dealer and get them to check it out. Ignore the recall VINs as what they want to address with any recall may relate to a smaller VIN-range than can be affected by a given problem. Often, there are other ways to approach the same problem if it appears outside the VIN range.
 
Hi David S.

Thanks for your comments.

I purchased the vehicle for Mrs Whippet as a dealer ex-demo/staff car in early 2019, and it had 8,000km on the odometer when we purchased it. I have never had the codes read, prior to two days ago. As mentioned in post #1, I have a report of all existing fault codes and then they were erased. The in-dash alert was triggered yesterday, so any related codes should be logged. The dealer can read them.

I will get the battery load tested later this week. I do agree that many of the 24 fault codes may be spurious and may be triggered by a voltage problem probably caused by a degrading AGM battery.

I am however, concerned about the P15A1-21 Intermittent Lubrication system-Oil pressure too low fault code, and think that out of the 24 fault codes, this is the only one that is triggering the in dash "Engine Fault" alert. Something is causing this, and as you and dmccurtain have mentioned it is very likely to be the clogged oil pick up screen/gauze.

So based on your remarks, I will attend our local dealer to see what they have to say. Not sure what reception I will get, as the vehicle has never been there.

One futher question. Assuming that the oil pickup gauze is blocked, I assume that the sump need to be removed to access and clean the gauze. Can this be done in-situ? I would seem logial to do this when the cam belt is replaced.

Cheers.
 
Hi.

The dealer where I purchased the vehicle from has confirmed that the VIN is not part of the JZR recall programme for the cam drive belt.

For a resolution to progress the dealer would want to inspect the vehicle, fair enough, but this will cost me $200, at which point they will say there is a low engine oil pressure fault code and the vehicle is not subject to any recall programmes; then what are their options? Other than the known cause that has been outlined in prior posts (cam drive belt shedding, blocking oil pick up), the other cause could be the oil pressure sensor out of calibration. The dealer did mention that they have experienced some problems with faulty sensors, which I took to mean the engine oil pressure sensor in this case.

The engine warning alert came on again today. This occurred on the western freeway - Adelaide bound, on the steep climb out of Pikes Creek. I had slowed to 90kmh, and had just pulled out to overtake the slower vehicle, pushing the throttle to the floor. Immediately I did this the engine alert displayed.

I have a theory as to why this might be occurring. As mentioned previously the alert only ever triggers when the engine is accelerating immediately after the throttle is pushed down. Maybe there is nothing wrong with the cam drive belt and pick up screen. Maybe when the throttle is pushed demanding more power from the engine, the cam phaser solenoid operates, instantly bleeding volume away from the engine oil feed galleries that the oil pressure gauge is sensing. This would cause an instant, temporary, reduction in engine oil pressure, until the flow to the cam phasers slowed as they filled with oil volume. Maybe this is enough to *trigger the low oil pressure warning alert? Well this is my theory, any comments?

*Maybe the engine oil pressure sensor is slightly out of calibration and is incorrectly reporting the actual engine oil pressure during the above event, so that it is below the configured point when the low engine oil pressure fault is triggered by the ECU?

What factors support my theory:
  • Engine is outside the cam belt replacement recall range.
  • Vehicle production date is later than the alleged introduction of a different specification cam drive belt.
  • No observable deterioration on the back of the cam drive belt.
  • No observable particles in the engine galleries as the gauze to the cam phaser solenoid were clear and clean, when previously inspected.
  • The P15A1 fault code is "intermittent" not a permanent code.
  • Fault code only ever occurs immediately after throttle is depressed, demanding more power output.
  • I have never heard any conrod big-end knocking.

I have only recently thrown out the old engine oil filters, I would have liked to cut one open to see if there was any debris caught there.

The lower engine oil sump is very easy to access, and I am very inclined to remove it to inspect the oil pick-up for blockages. Trouble is, that if I touch the engine, any dealer will then use that to deny any potential warranty.

H'mm.

Cheers.
Note: in post #12 I mentioned 24 fault codes, that is incorrect there were 44 fault codes.
 
One more thought to support my theory in #15.

The engine oil pump pick up gauze is a fixed surface area. The engine oil pump is chain driven from the crankshaft. Therefore the oil flow rate (LPM) through the pick up gauze is linear and proportional to engine RPM. Therefore the flow rate is greatest at higher RPMs. Agreed?

If the pick up gauze is blocked by shed cam belt particles, increasing RPM would cause more oil flow rate across the gauze, causing cavitation, and low oil pressure, due to reduce pumped oil volume. Then why does the low oil pressure alert not trigger at high engine RPM's?

It only triggers at moderate RPM, after throttle push down.

My theory might be proved incorrect, but the evidence does not support a blocked oil pick up strainer gauze due to shed particles from the cam drive belt.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
Here's a complication. The EB engines, like the 1.6 EP engines, have a variable flow oil pump.

In the EP engine, above 2000 rpm the displacement alters to attempt to keep the pressure constant. I don't have information on how the EB pump works.
 
Here's a complication. The EB engines, like the 1.6 EP engines, have a variable flow oil pump.

In the EP engine, above 2000 rpm the displacement alters to attempt to keep the pressure constant. I don't have information on how the EB pump works.
Thanks.

I was not aware of that.

Do you know if the oil pump is a gear pump or a piston pump with swash plate to destroke it?

Cheers
 
The EP6 group use a pump with two meshing gears. One fixed location gear is driven from the crankshaft. The other gear is able to slide on its axis, driven by oil pressure, so that after sliding a smaller inter-gear space is available for oil displacement. A return spring prevents any sliding until the pressure resulting from 2000 rpm is reached and an oil valve opens. Output pressure then remains = 4.5 bars +- 0.5.

The text in Citroen's document is:
L’huile délivrée par la pompe s’applique sur le clapet de régulation.
A un régime d’environ 2000 Tr/min, la pression délivrée permet de déplacer ce dernier (début de régulation).
Le clapet s’ouvre, la pression d’huile repousse l’«arbre-piston de régulation».
La cylindrée de la pompe varie en fonction du déplacement de l’«arbre-piston de régulation
 
This is the EP6 family pump. It's inverted. On the left is the drive location, and on the right is the housing for the spring on the other gear.
pump-.jpg
 
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