Hi all I'm wanting to lower the rear of 206 GTI180 Dad and I are building for track work, the rear is too high,
How do we lower it?
Please help
Thanks
Ben Park
How do we lower it?
Please help
Thanks
Ben Park
Lowering PUG 206 GTI 180 Rear Torsion Bar
- Thread starter BP505v6Turbo
- Start date
Hi. Not really answering your question sorry - but I took my GTi180 for a wheel alignment yesterday, hoping to chat through some options about front end adjustment but was told there is basically no standard adjustment on these, now in search of camber plates or something to add to the front. I know a few on here have tried different rim diameter options, would that be an option for you?
hi Ben, did this twenty odd years ago on our 405sri so can, t quite remember fully, but I think ends of torsion bars have torn headed bolts in them, removed bolts knocked out torsion bar at anchor end and rotated r/h bar clockwise looking from right to left of vehicle with jack under end of control arm jacked up arm so moved one spline around at anchor point, refitted torsion bar. repeated on l/h side but rotate bar anti clockwise when looking from left to right of vehicle. might be better to speak to someone like graham Wallis or Peter t they may clarify if my recollection is not quite correct..... jim
Ben,
be careful doing this .
Mark everything with a pin punch first so you don't loose the original setting as a reference point.
Otherwise it becomes guesswork.
The problem is if you take the trailing arm off the needle roller bearing falls apart and you may not be able to re-assemble it.
There are three different bearing sizes on the 206 cars, i was lucky i had new spares.
Chinese are fine because the trunion shaft is the bit you want to save , bearings wear but shaft is saved.
Once the trunion shaft are worn you have problems, find another suspension frame or assembly.
Once the bearings become worn you get very tricky handling from the rear of the car .Probably should read dangerous.
With the 180 there are links to control the control arms , so you need to remove them to test the bearing wear.
No provision for greasing the bearings is the problem.
be careful doing this .
Mark everything with a pin punch first so you don't loose the original setting as a reference point.
Otherwise it becomes guesswork.
The problem is if you take the trailing arm off the needle roller bearing falls apart and you may not be able to re-assemble it.
There are three different bearing sizes on the 206 cars, i was lucky i had new spares.
Chinese are fine because the trunion shaft is the bit you want to save , bearings wear but shaft is saved.
Once the trunion shaft are worn you have problems, find another suspension frame or assembly.
Once the bearings become worn you get very tricky handling from the rear of the car .Probably should read dangerous.
With the 180 there are links to control the control arms , so you need to remove them to test the bearing wear.
No provision for greasing the bearings is the problem.
Ok thanks Berridale and Jim,
During the Xmas break I'm hoping to do it,
Cheers BP
During the Xmas break I'm hoping to do it,
Cheers BP
Car has done just over 100k and been well looked after, so should be pretty good.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2000
- Messages
- 11,441
What are you going to use for autocross? Bring it down to get it adjusted or I could drop in some time. Assuming it is similar to 205/306 or 405.
How do you determine the length of the guide and the pre-load?
Can you explain, please?
Start by removing the shock absorbers and let the arms hang by themselves. Also remove the ARB. I assume the rear end is in the car? Measure the centre to centre length of the shock absorber mounts. I'm not sure what it is for a 206 GTi180, but for a 205 GTi for example, it's 325mm. You can then remove the torsion bars, clean, lube etc., ready for re-assembly.
Ideally you'd make an adjustable fixed shock absorber, like mine as attached. Reducing the shock length 25mm will lower the car a lot more than 25mm, as the arm ratio isn't 1:1. Thus you'll need to experiment. Try -15mm first.
Bolt the dummy shock into one side and try to insert the torsion bar (for that side). If it won't engage, keep rotating the TB until the splines engage properly, without excessive force. Lock the torsion bar for that side, then repeat with the other side.
Pre-load? There is none. However, the screw adjuster should be set for 0.5-0.7mm (approx) of clearance. I wind the screw in, then back off half a turn and lock.
Ideally you'd make an adjustable fixed shock absorber, like mine as attached. Reducing the shock length 25mm will lower the car a lot more than 25mm, as the arm ratio isn't 1:1. Thus you'll need to experiment. Try -15mm first.
Bolt the dummy shock into one side and try to insert the torsion bar (for that side). If it won't engage, keep rotating the TB until the splines engage properly, without excessive force. Lock the torsion bar for that side, then repeat with the other side.
Pre-load? There is none. However, the screw adjuster should be set for 0.5-0.7mm (approx) of clearance. I wind the screw in, then back off half a turn and lock.
Attachments
I replaced the bearings on the 206 GTI n didn't mark well enough and ended up with driver's side lower.
It would be good to fix this.
So using the 325 mm and driving the torsion bar away from the trailing arm i won't disturb the bearings.
I presume i drove the bar the wrong way?
Thank you.
It would be good to fix this.
So using the 325 mm and driving the torsion bar away from the trailing arm i won't disturb the bearings.
I presume i drove the bar the wrong way?
Thank you.
Peter,
with the dummy shock in place then you just tap the torsion bar back from the trailing arm and then it should then push back into the trailing arm easily into the correct position ?
You then do the same for the other side ?
Pre-load only exists when shocker is in place and car on the ground with wheels?
with the dummy shock in place then you just tap the torsion bar back from the trailing arm and then it should then push back into the trailing arm easily into the correct position ?
You then do the same for the other side ?
Pre-load only exists when shocker is in place and car on the ground with wheels?
A couple of things to add to this.
- the roller bearings wont ‘fall apart’ when you pull put out the trailing arms, you dont actually need to pull the arms out rather pull/push the torsion bar out to lower or raise the beam height.
- at 15-20 years old and 100k your bearings will certainly need looking at and probably replacing along with the shafts. There are folks on the forum who had to replace them at 70k on the 206 180s years ago so budget for that. To test them before disassembly, jack up the rear, grab your wheel at 9 and 3 and try to move it all directions and do the same at 12 and 6. If there is any knock or slight movement whatsoever you need new bearings.
- when removing the torsion bar and then lowering the arm you cannot just put the bar back 1 spline lower or 2 whatever it is. You need to keep trying each spline until it slips in without resistance. Im not sure of the terminology but they are not the same fit around the splines. Its a tedious process sometimes.
- there is a guide on the 205gtidrivers.com website that explains how to do this. Read it through twice to get yourself familiar with how to do it. You will need feeler gauges for reassembly as to not over or under tighten the torsion bars which hold it all together.
- dont go too low. It will handle worse. -30 mm is plenty as you will ruin the geometry. Same goes with the front, -30mm is plenty unless you have bump steer correction and a host of other bits and bobs. There is years of experience here on how to make these cars go around turns. Low is not it.
- Get yourself some 15in C5 rims to ditch the boat anchor 17s.
Good luck
- the roller bearings wont ‘fall apart’ when you pull put out the trailing arms, you dont actually need to pull the arms out rather pull/push the torsion bar out to lower or raise the beam height.
- at 15-20 years old and 100k your bearings will certainly need looking at and probably replacing along with the shafts. There are folks on the forum who had to replace them at 70k on the 206 180s years ago so budget for that. To test them before disassembly, jack up the rear, grab your wheel at 9 and 3 and try to move it all directions and do the same at 12 and 6. If there is any knock or slight movement whatsoever you need new bearings.
- when removing the torsion bar and then lowering the arm you cannot just put the bar back 1 spline lower or 2 whatever it is. You need to keep trying each spline until it slips in without resistance. Im not sure of the terminology but they are not the same fit around the splines. Its a tedious process sometimes.
- there is a guide on the 205gtidrivers.com website that explains how to do this. Read it through twice to get yourself familiar with how to do it. You will need feeler gauges for reassembly as to not over or under tighten the torsion bars which hold it all together.
- dont go too low. It will handle worse. -30 mm is plenty as you will ruin the geometry. Same goes with the front, -30mm is plenty unless you have bump steer correction and a host of other bits and bobs. There is years of experience here on how to make these cars go around turns. Low is not it.
- Get yourself some 15in C5 rims to ditch the boat anchor 17s.
Good luck
Cam,
"the roller bearings wont ‘fall apart’ when you pull put out the trailing arms,"
Had the needle rollers fall out of the bearing. No doubt that this happened.
On the 206 GTI i found 3 different size bearings on the two cars i have repaired.
I will make a guide as Peter suggested
"the roller bearings wont ‘fall apart’ when you pull put out the trailing arms,"
Had the needle rollers fall out of the bearing. No doubt that this happened.
On the 206 GTI i found 3 different size bearings on the two cars i have repaired.
I will make a guide as Peter suggested