• Tapatalk and Mobile iOS/ Android APPs no longer supported on aussiefrogs.com. Please delete on your device. Use the web interface instead.

Koleos tires recommendations?

Haakon

1000+ Posts
The scary re the wheel nuts!! Do you know who did the work? They should be told...

Speed limits are imposed on space savers because they have no grip, and massively compromise the handling. “Full size” spare are still often a different size and hence still present a handling imbalance - and speed limited.

I jsut rotate as much as needed to make all four replaceabe at the same time. For example, the Alfa Giulietta is really hard on tyres and at 15k the fronts are 80% dead (but the rears are still 80% good) - on the back they go and by the time the new fronts have gone the new rears have gone through the last 20%... 30K out of a set of tyres is about average :)

If you need to replace only two, always put the new ones on the back. Crossovers in particular rely heavily on ESP systems to stop them spinning in swerving situations, help it out by not biasing grip to the front...
 
Last edited:

Breitie

Member
Schlitzaugen, by 'dummy' spare I loosely infer that it is non-matching and for limited use only, like a 'claytons' spare.

What interests me though is your reference to 'clips' that extend from the brake pads almost to the rim (post #92 above).
You were going to show us a picture of those if possible.

I suspect that those 'clips' are the wear gauges that make contact with the rim once the pads have been worn down and make a
scraping noise to alert you to the need to replace the pads. Some pads have them, others don't. I could be wrong of course.
 

Kim Luck

1000+ Posts
The scary re the wheel nuts!! Do you know who did the work? They should be told...

Speed limits are imposed on space savers because they have no grip, and massively compromise the handling. “Full size” spare are still often a different size and hence still present a handling imbalance - and speed limited.

I jsut rotate as much as needed to make all four replaceabe at the same time. For example, the Alfa Giulietta is really hard on tyres and at 15k the fronts are 80% dead (but the rears are still 80% good) - on the back they go and by the time the new fronts have gone the new rears have gone through the last 20%... 30K out of a set of tyres is about average :)

If you need to replace only two, always put the new ones on the back. Crossovers in particular rely heavily on ESP systems to stop them spinning in swerving situations, help it out by not biasing grip to the front...
Understeer is when you hit the tree between the headlights, oversteer is when you hit the tree between the tail-lights and neutral handling is when you completely avoid the tree. Never fit only two new tyres at a time, period. :mallet:Rotate them properly and replace all four at once to allow your vehicle the best chance of avoiding the tree. :cool:
 

Haakon

1000+ Posts
Understeer is when you hit the tree between the headlights, oversteer is when you hit the tree between the tail-lights and neutral handling is when you completely avoid the tree. Never fit only two new tyres at a time, period. :mallet:Rotate them properly and replace all four at once to allow your vehicle the best chance of avoiding the tree. :cool:
Absolutely. But if you really must fit only two, put the best ones on the back ;)
 

Haakon

1000+ Posts
Schlitzaugen, by 'dummy' spare I loosely infer that it is non-matching and for limited use only, like a 'claytons' spare.

What interests me though is your reference to 'clips' that extend from the brake pads almost to the rim (post #92 above).
You were going to show us a picture of those if possible.

I suspect that those 'clips' are the wear gauges that make contact with the rim once the pads have been worn down and make a
scraping noise to alert you to the need to replace the pads. Some pads have them, others don't. I could be wrong of course.
That was a typo I think - the wear indicator clips touch the rotor when the pads wear down, not the rim.

google image "koleos front brake caliper" and it seems the clip is normal.
 

Haakon

1000+ Posts
Now you’ve got me thinking about replacing the spare in the Megane... Brand new never used Michelin - lives inside the boot, looks perfect. But it’s 15 years old...
 

JohnW

Too many posts!
Now you’ve got me thinking about replacing the spare in the Megane... Brand new never used Michelin - lives inside the boot, looks perfect. But it’s 15 years old...
Yes.... When we sold our 20 year-old Xantia, the spare had never been removed. Kept in the dark, not too hot etc. It looked brand new.
Makes you think....
I monitor the Michelins on the R8 particularly for micro-cracking. When that gets obvious, out go the tyres.....
I'm sure no-one would argue that these were due for the recycler.

Wall cracks 1 Oct 2015.jpg
Wall cracks 2 Oct 2015.jpg
 

schlitzaugen

1000+ Posts
The problem with tyres is their chemistry. Yeah, exposure to light, temperature yadda yadda makes a difference but that is nothing compared to the passing of time. The long chain polymers they are made of are not stable. Well, nothing is in this universe but man made stuff is particularly so. All those little cations added to the main chain, those double and triple bonds want to release energy and they lose connection to the chain. That changes the rubber properties drastically long before you have cracks. When you have cracks, the main chain itself is broken and you don't have rubber anymore or you have rubber on short distances.

At that point any (tyre not cracked yet) physical strain induced in use will only trigger and accelerate the breakdown of the rubber. Yes, you kept it in the dark, etc, etc, but the rubber is now in a very unstable state. Strain is a good trigger and can lead to total breakdown as I mentioned above in no time flat. Imagine if you will a compressed spring kept for a long time like that. Then, one day you call it into duty and now it has to vary its length and do its spring thing. What do you think will happen? Likewise, your tyre might work fine for a couple of minutes or hours or maybe months as the structure (chemical structure) is trying to find some equilibrium after which all those bonds ready to release will let go and you end up in a ditch.

Another way to look at it is to consider the manufacturing process of something. If it involves large pressure, high temperature and exotic chemicals/chemical environments (catalysts, oxidising/reducing agents, etc), you can bet your bottom dollar the end product is metastable. Which basically means it will last for a while, but eventually it will break down and seek to find its original equilibrium state, whatever that was. That goes for some of the strongest/toughest materials as well, not just petrochemicals. The only difference is that some of these materials can be easily put out of their stability domain while others might have a wider range of stability.

This is true of natural materials as well, such as rocks. We all know diamonds are tough and so on. Well, don't take your wife's diamonds and put them in the oven above 150-200 degrees, because you will end up with a very expensive pencil core and a divorce. Rocks of the mantle so strong that they carry continental plates on their backs turn to dust exposed to the atmosphere. Australia is a good lab that demonstrates exactly that.
 
Last edited:

Haakon

1000+ Posts
That made my inner organic chemist happy :)

Fine, I’ll find the cheapest Chinese special I can for a spare and bin the brand new looking spare....
 

Kim Luck

1000+ Posts
The problem with tyres is their chemistry. Yeah, exposure to light, temperature yadda yadda makes a difference but that is nothing compared to the passing of time. The long chain polymers they are made of are not stable. Well, nothing is in this universe but man made stuff is particularly so. All those little cations added to the main chain, those double and triple bonds want to release energy and they lose connection to the chain. That changes the rubber properties drastically long before you have cracks. When you have cracks, the main chain itself is broken and you don't have rubber anymore or you have rubber on short distances.

At that point any (tyre not cracked yet) physical strain induced in use will only trigger and accelerate the breakdown of the rubber. Yes, you kept it in the dark, etc, etc, but the rubber is now in a very unstable state. Strain is a good trigger and can lead to total breakdown as I mentioned above in no time flat. Imagine if you will a compressed spring kept for a long time like that. Then, one day you call it into duty and now it has to vary its length and do its spring thing. What do you think will happen? Likewise, your tyre might work fine for a couple of minutes or hours or maybe months as the structure (chemical structure) is trying to find some equilibrium after which all those bonds ready to release will let go and you end up in a ditch.

Another way to look at it is to consider the manufacturing process of something. If it involves large pressure, high temperature and exotic chemicals/chemical environments (catalysts, oxidising/reducing agents, etc), you can bet your bottom dollar the end product is metastable. Which basically means it will last for a while, but eventually it will break down and seek to find its original equilibrium state, whatever that was. That goes for some of the strongest/toughest materials as well, not just petrochemicals. The only difference is that some of these materials can be easily put out of their stability domain while others might have a wider range of stability.

This is true of natural materials as well, such as rocks. We all know diamonds are tough and so on. Well, don't take your wife's diamonds and put them in the oven above 150-200 degrees, because you will end up with a very expensive pencil core and a divorce. Rocks of the mantle so strong that they carry continental plates on their backs turn to dust exposed to the atmosphere. Australia is a good lab that demonstrates exactly that.
That was an interesting dissertation regarding the properties of the little round rubber-like things that sit at the four corners of a car. I never in my life imagined that a consumer would have so much concern for the way a long and well-established product is put together and one that is also designed by some of the cleverest chemical engineers in the world to perform as expected day in, day out, year in, year out, kilometre after kilometre. I continue to be constantly fascinated by the things that froggers reveal about themselves as the sands of time trickle slowly through the hourglass.........:)
 

schlitzaugen

1000+ Posts
I didn't have that much interest, but I had to sit through three years of Chemistry (and Sedimentology, Petrology, Mineralogy and Cystallography) at uni and then worked for about 30 years in a field heavily reliant on chemistry so something must have rubbed off. And then I went and did my master in Mineral Deposits. Ha! What an idiot.

And to think I went to do geology because I thought I was never going to have to deal with Chemistry ever again after my disastruous experience in high school.
 

JohnW

Too many posts!
I didn't have that much interest, but I had to sit through three years of Chemistry (and Sedimentology, Petrology, Mineralogy and Cystallography) at uni and then worked for about 30 years in a field heavily reliant on chemistry so something must have rubbed off. And then I went and did my master in Mineral Deposits. Ha! What an idiot.

And to think I went to do geology because I thought I was never going to have to deal with Chemistry ever again after my disastruous experience in high school.
We must catch up sometime. We might even know each other.....

Re tyres and diamonds, "metastable" is a word that comes to mind....
 

Breitie

Member
Gee, Mr schlitzaugen, that is a long and very detailed, no doubt very accurate description of what happens to many materials over time.
Myself, being an uneducated lay person, have been using the terms "perish" and "embrittlement" for the same natural process. Now I know.
 

schlitzaugen

1000+ Posts
I remember in the eighties my dream was to have some of those new fangled plastic ski boots I had seen some flashy people wear on the slopes. Nearly impossible to find in the communist heaven, but one day my father came home with a new pair and I nearly wet myself. Got a couple of seasons out of them and then one day I went for a turn and the whole boot shattered to smithereens. The plastic was old and brittle. I noticed then a lot of other people with the same problem. The bastards had imported some cheap old stock beyond use. That's what happens with such materials. Fails with no warning.

I also remember old timers working in the mines told me how the wood in the supporting structures of the galleries starts to "sing" before it gives way so they knew it was time to replace it or make their way out. Steel supports just collapsed out of the blue sometimes killing people.
 

4cvg

1000+ Posts
<snip>

In other news, the tyres are on and they do feel a bit grippier. I might be imagining things, but the steering feels a bit heavier at very low speeds. Not as in you have to tug at it, but as in you feel you're in a car and turning the steering wheel. Before it was like a game console, no nada.

Manufacturing date is 37/19 on four tyres and 22/19 on the fifth. Made in Romania, so EU spec.

<snip>
1. Continental, like Michelin, is anal about ensuring that tyre quality is true to spec. no matter where made. That the spec. is EU is reassuring for wet grip.

2. I have predicted that you will like the PC5. So far, so good but a more fulsome report would be nice in due course.

cheers! Peter
 

schlitzaugen

1000+ Posts
Well, I don't have a full report, but for now I do feel they are a good quality tire.

One test I like to do is drive down the turnpike on freeway entry near my house and see how fast I can go. It's one of those 270 degrees turns with a rather tight radius and down slope. I usually chicken out in my 205GTI at about 70km/h because I can feel my guts going sideways and my head is in the side window. Well, this car feels different. 70km/h is comfortable and I am not going to push an SUV beyond that, but there's absolutely no indication it may break traction. And yes, I am aware that it may go tumbling down without breaking traction, which is why I am not going to push it.

And yes, I know it's the same speed as in the GTI, it just feels so different I can understand why some people roll these bloody things over.

Pushing through roundabouts does feel like a heavy car with ample body roll, but again, the tires don't want to let go. Surprisingly, I didn't find any understeer yet.

As I start to know the car I will probably push a bit harder, but for now I am happy with the tires.

Brakes feel a lot more categorical than the Corolla, you need to touch them gently otherwise you get thrown out of the seat.

Didn't have any wet roads to try yet, I guess that is where I would expect these tires to deliver.
 

Kim Luck

1000+ Posts
Well, I don't have a full report, but for now I do feel they are a good quality tire.

One test I like to do is drive down the turnpike on freeway entry near my house and see how fast I can go. It's one of those 270 degrees turns with a rather tight radius and down slope. I usually chicken out in my 205GTI at about 70km/h because I can feel my guts going sideways and my head is in the side window. Well, this car feels different. 70km/h is comfortable and I am not going to push an SUV beyond that, but there's absolutely no indication it may break traction. And yes, I am aware that it may go tumbling down without breaking traction, which is why I am not going to push it.

And yes, I know it's the same speed as in the GTI, it just feels so different I can understand why some people roll these bloody things over.

Pushing through roundabouts does feel like a heavy car with ample body roll, but again, the tires don't want to let go. Surprisingly, I didn't find any understeer yet.

As I start to know the car I will probably push a bit harder, but for now I am happy with the tires.

Brakes feel a lot more categorical than the Corolla, you need to touch them gently otherwise you get thrown out of the seat.

Didn't have any wet roads to try yet, I guess that is where I would expect these tires to deliver.
The car has loads of lateral grip without ever falling over. Tyre pressures are critical, for ride, grip and longevity. Even one psi lower pressures make the car ride like a dray. If you are already inhibited in your cornering speeds in the dry, I imagine you will never find the limits in the wet! ;)
 

4cvg

1000+ Posts
Well, I don't have a full report, but for now I do feel they are a good quality tire.

One test I like to do is drive down the turnpike on freeway entry near my house and see how fast I can go. It's one of those 270 degrees turns with a rather tight radius and down slope. I usually chicken out in my 205GTI at about 70km/h because I can feel my guts going sideways and my head is in the side window. Well, this car feels different. 70km/h is comfortable and I am not going to push an SUV beyond that, but there's absolutely no indication it may break traction. And yes, I am aware that it may go tumbling down without breaking traction, which is why I am not going to push it.

And yes, I know it's the same speed as in the GTI, it just feels so different I can understand why some people roll these bloody things over.

Pushing through roundabouts does feel like a heavy car with ample body roll, but again, the tires don't want to let go. Surprisingly, I didn't find any understeer yet.

As I start to know the car I will probably push a bit harder, but for now I am happy with the tires.

Brakes feel a lot more categorical than the Corolla, you need to touch them gently otherwise you get thrown out of the seat.

Didn't have any wet roads to try yet, I guess that is where I would expect these tires to deliver.
yep, ta.
 

JohnW

Too many posts!
I remember in the eighties my dream was to have some of those new fangled plastic ski boots I had seen some flashy people wear on the slopes. Nearly impossible to find in the communist heaven, but one day my father came home with a new pair and I nearly wet myself. Got a couple of seasons out of them and then one day I went for a turn and the whole boot shattered to smithereens. The plastic was old and brittle. I noticed then a lot of other people with the same problem. The bastards had imported some cheap old stock beyond use. That's what happens with such materials. Fails with no warning.

I also remember old timers working in the mines told me how the wood in the supporting structures of the galleries starts to "sing" before it gives way so they knew it was time to replace it or make their way out. Steel supports just collapsed out of the blue sometimes killing people.
Off topic but interesting... The old miners in timber propped mines, like deep European coal mines, certainly in UK, actually felt the opposite. As long as they could hear things creaking and adjusting to stresses, they were OK. If the noise stopped, stresses were building up and they knew to get out quickly. I heard that story several times back in the day.
 

Dapco Auto France

Top