1 web-find from somewhere it won't be missed, or appreciated quite as much.
(VINTAGE SHOTS FROM DAYS GONE BY! (Part 2))
(VINTAGE SHOTS FROM DAYS GONE BY! (Part 2))
Last edited:
just photos, for posterity
- Thread starter Steven King
- Start date
Off Topic ASAP!
https://rmcdecouverte.bfmtv.com/les-gra ... gram_8168/
i haven't been able to watch it yet but Amoureux has had this french documentary linked for days;
now on you-tube, so may be more ephemeral, in which case this post must go
https://rmcdecouverte.bfmtv.com/les-gra ... gram_8168/
i haven't been able to watch it yet but Amoureux has had this french documentary linked for days;
now on you-tube, so may be more ephemeral, in which case this post must go
Last edited:
Excellent even if you don't speak French wellworth watching right through
sorry, timed out probably - if you can't get to it here:
https://rmcdecouverte.bfmtv.com/les-grandes-heures-de-lautomobile/program_8168/
where i get:
"CE CONTENU N'EST PAS DISPONIBLE DEPUIS VOTRE PAYS"
i will delete
https://rmcdecouverte.bfmtv.com/les-grandes-heures-de-lautomobile/program_8168/
where i get:
"CE CONTENU N'EST PAS DISPONIBLE DEPUIS VOTRE PAYS"
i will delete
Last edited:
Well it’s not just you. Lucky Ian!
Again, not just photos - not all Peugeot, either - but just in case,
203:
Lancia Aurelia:
Chrysler
Wikipedia, re. australian Hemi (a la Lancia):
"...The Hemi-6 valves are angled apart (splayed) 18 degrees (included angle) along the crankshaft axis, .... The cylinder head is not a crossflow design, meaning the 6 intake and 6 exhaust ports are on the same side of the engine (the left, Australian and British passenger, side).
Unlike Chrysler's contemporaneous hemi V8 engines, the Hemi-6's rocker arms are mounted on individual studs (similar to the Chevrolet "big block" V8), rather than on 2 separate rocker shafts as in all 1951-58 Hemis—Dodge, DeSoto, Imperial, and Chrysler "Firepower" and 1964-'71 Plymouth and Dodge 426 V8s...."
also Wikipedia re. american Hemi (a la Peugeot);
" ... The hemi head always has intake and exhaust valve stems that point in different directions, requiring a large, wide cylinder head and complex rocker arm geometry ...
Significant challenges in the commercialization of engine designs utilizing hemispherical chambers revolved around the valve actuation, specifically how to make it effective, efficient, and reliable at an acceptable cost.[citation needed]This complexity was referenced early in Chrysler's development of their 1950s hemi engine: the head was referred to in company advertising as the Double Rocker Shaft head. ..."
203:
Lancia Aurelia:
Chrysler
Wikipedia, re. australian Hemi (a la Lancia):
"...The Hemi-6 valves are angled apart (splayed) 18 degrees (included angle) along the crankshaft axis, .... The cylinder head is not a crossflow design, meaning the 6 intake and 6 exhaust ports are on the same side of the engine (the left, Australian and British passenger, side).
Unlike Chrysler's contemporaneous hemi V8 engines, the Hemi-6's rocker arms are mounted on individual studs (similar to the Chevrolet "big block" V8), rather than on 2 separate rocker shafts as in all 1951-58 Hemis—Dodge, DeSoto, Imperial, and Chrysler "Firepower" and 1964-'71 Plymouth and Dodge 426 V8s...."
also Wikipedia re. american Hemi (a la Peugeot);
" ... The hemi head always has intake and exhaust valve stems that point in different directions, requiring a large, wide cylinder head and complex rocker arm geometry ...
Significant challenges in the commercialization of engine designs utilizing hemispherical chambers revolved around the valve actuation, specifically how to make it effective, efficient, and reliable at an acceptable cost.[citation needed]This complexity was referenced early in Chrysler's development of their 1950s hemi engine: the head was referred to in company advertising as the Double Rocker Shaft head. ..."
Last edited:
Last edited:
The ones from Golden Point would be good, Pete
Thanks for this and preceding posts which vindicate my claims on the Lancia and Valiant hemi valve layouts. However, I still have nagging doubts that the Peugeot layout was patented and that Chrysler paid royalties for its use. I have yet to see undisputed evidence to this effect.
Another point, Peugeot may have developed the layout at the end of the War. Citroen used it on the DS motor when the planned boxer engine failed late in the development program - probably around 1953-54. They must have also paid royalties if there was an unexpired patent.
Another point, Peugeot may have developed the layout at the end of the War. Citroen used it on the DS motor when the planned boxer engine failed late in the development program - probably around 1953-54. They must have also paid royalties if there was an unexpired patent.
The motoring press of the 1950's both local and overseas stated that the Peugeot head and valve design was patented eg Australian Motor Manual, Car and Driver and The Motor. Car and Driver also repeated the claim that Chrysler had bought the patent from Peugeot and the Peugeot design was the basis of the Chrysler head and valve train.
The car driven by Cortanze at Le Mans in 1938, known as the Big Mother, was an early use of the design Peugeot was to use in the 203. Edward Eves of The Autocar was well informed as to pre and post war design trends of Peugeot but Dumont had the greatest access to Garennes and the design staff.
The car driven by Cortanze at Le Mans in 1938, known as the Big Mother, was an early use of the design Peugeot was to use in the 203. Edward Eves of The Autocar was well informed as to pre and post war design trends of Peugeot but Dumont had the greatest access to Garennes and the design staff.
as said previously - above-named becoming Stellantis, truth and reconciliation may out
My point is that these references do not constitute indisputable evidence of a patent. They could be the result of repeated hearsay. Probably the only way to settle the matter would be to find a copy of the original patent. With regard to the Chrysler connection one would need to establish if the French patent was applicable World wide. I find it hard to believe that a company with the engineering expertise of Chrysler at the time would pay royalties for something they could have developed themselves.
Another point. Pushrod operated valves in a hemispherical combustion chamber were nothing new. Riley had them (albeit driven from two camshafts) from the late 1920s. Pre-war BMW and post-war Bristol used a combination of vertical and horizontal pushrods to achieve the same result. Given these precedents could the Peugeot layout have actually been patentable?
Finally, consider other users of the system. Citroen, Armstrong-Siddeley, Humber and Daimler in the 1950s, Renault and Daihatsu in the 1960s and Toyota in the 1970s.
Another point. Pushrod operated valves in a hemispherical combustion chamber were nothing new. Riley had them (albeit driven from two camshafts) from the late 1920s. Pre-war BMW and post-war Bristol used a combination of vertical and horizontal pushrods to achieve the same result. Given these precedents could the Peugeot layout have actually been patentable?
Finally, consider other users of the system. Citroen, Armstrong-Siddeley, Humber and Daimler in the 1950s, Renault and Daihatsu in the 1960s and Toyota in the 1970s.
Last edited:
During the 1970's and 1980's I used to have access to a number of French historical vehicle magazines or rather more importantly a person to translate them. The most interesting articles I found were from Pierre Dumont who seemed to have access to and the confidence of the old guard at Garenne. He made the claim that Peugeot had sent the Fleischel automatic gearbox 402 to the USA in the late 1930's and that the patents had been stolen by the Americans during the war. When I repeated that on this forum another poster contested the claim. Certainly articles in magazines are not proof of anything but I give Dumont's views some weight. So I will see what I can find in the way of evidence rather than chatter by motor journalists.
Peugeot did lodge a patent on the head and valve train of the 203 engine in 1948. But patents are hard to enforce.
Peugeot did lodge a patent on the head and valve train of the 203 engine in 1948. But patents are hard to enforce.
Last edited:
ute was going to Melbourne, picked up just after i was alerted to it in Kyneton, late ‘80s
wagon was my first car but the van was in Highett st. Richmond earply ‘80s - I think the owners moved up to Castlemaine, though.
( I have posted these before but now from prints - lasted better than neg.s scanned previously )
( I have posted these before but now from prints - lasted better than neg.s scanned previously )
Last edited: