Is anyone else being driven insane by mowers that don't cut ?

So who here understands 2stroke engines ?? The old victa here has needed a good 20pushes of the primer button to start ..... and the governer isn't great ... it often revs harder than it should ... then drops back to normal.

I grabbed it out to cut some grass last week and the string broke ....... damn. So I thought I'd really lash out. I grabbed 3 Orings and a string for it... The big top cover Oring, the Oring for the string pull shaft (well they had to come apart to replace the string either way) ...... and the carby end cover Oring (where its leaking).

I'll be damned.... I just pushed the primer twice ... and the shit started before the string was half out on the first pull. Do these mowers rely on a sealed crankcase in order for the starter primer and governer curcuits to work properly :confused: ..... Why didn't I replace those Orings 10years ago ... hmmmmm
 
I don't know the details of where your O-rings go, but yes, the 2 stroke relies on crankcase compression to push the air/fuel mixture up to the combustion chamber. The carby will feed air/fuel into the crankcase, then the action of the piston on its downstroke pressurises the crankcase and forces the air/fuel up the intake port. The top of the piston uncovers the inlet port then covers it on the way back up on compression - that's basically your inlet valve.

Cheers.
 
Hey all,

Read this thread and thought to myself hmmm maybe these boffins will know what's up.

I have a Talon "Silver Eagle" mower. It was given to me, so the price was right. It works so i'm pretty hesitant to go buy a new one, but maybe some advice as I know nothing about small motors will help me.

It hadn't been run for a few years before being given to me, and all I did was fill it full of 98 and give it a pull. It started pretty much first go. It's still got the shitty old oil in it (i'll swap it out soon...) It ran for about half an hour, then stalled. No amount of pulling would make it go.

I pulled the air filter, and bam, two primes and it runs. It seems down on power but it cuts. It only wants to run flat out, it'll run at lower speeds but as soon as you try to cut, it stalls. It cuts fine running flat out... if you're strategic and give it time to spin up more RPM's when you're in deep stuff (suburban backyard deep stuff, hardly deep deep stuff I mow every week) but i'd like it to work properly.

I do have a brand new air filter for it, but when fitted, it won't run at all. With no air filter, it is as above.

It's a 4 stroke I assume Briggs clone.

I assume it's running stupid lean due to no filter, but if so, why's putting a filter on it choke it so it won't even start?

Wait. Maybe it is only running off choke... not that it has a lever.

Hmm. Any advice?
 
4 Strokes really are not designed to cut grass, which is why the original Rotary Mower, invented in Australia and called a Victa, was powered by a two stroke engine of their own design. When long grass is encountered, the old Victa two stroke performs at it's best, the engine revs, unlike a 4 stroke do not reduce, instead you can hear a harsh engine note as the engine maintains it's torque and rpm. The suburbs are full of 4 stroke mowers, their engine revs constantly rising and falling as they encounter different densities of grass, annoyingly, as they struggle to do a job they were never designed to do!
 
whip the carby off and give it a good clean out. It's going to be full of crap from the old fuel. 2strokes are very simple things compared to 4strokes :)
 
Time is running out for petrol mowers, the pollution they produce is thousands of times more than a modern car. Lithium batteries mean that electric mowers are the future. Just waiting for my Victa to wear out, could take a while but the electric replacement will be improved by then.
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
Time is running out for petrol mowers, the pollution they produce is thousands of times more than a modern car. Lithium batteries mean that electric mowers are the future. Just waiting for my Victa to wear out, could take a while but the electric replacement will be improved by then.
Click to expand...

You already can't buy the super 600 with a proper 2stroke ..... Imagine trying to push this heavy bastard.... I'm sure its easier to start though :)

victa-msp606-800x800.png


a battery mower couldn't really replace a contractor type mower. They wouldn't run for long enough without a charge.[/quote]
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
Time is running out for petrol mowers, the pollution they produce is thousands of times more than a modern car. Lithium batteries mean that electric mowers are the future. Just waiting for my Victa to wear out, could take a while but the electric replacement will be improved by then.
Click to expand...

You could be a very old man by the time your current mower wears out. I now have two working two stroke Victas (mine and Dad's) in the garage whilst I employ someone with a four stroke to do my lawns and general gardening............. life's tough.....
 
there's a Bosch electric mower here [half-price special :)], my better half loves it as it's so easy to push around. BUT, when it gets to the dense runner grasses it's so light it sits on top !!
Their battery trimmer is a great unit with it's little plastic tags instead of the PITA line spool - but seems to have been discontinued for some reason :( I see that Ozito has a similar trimmer, but we've noted it's "plastic tags" don't wear as well as the Bosch examples - the price difference does mean something it seems.
cheers,
Bob
 
DoubleChevron said:
You already can't buy the super 600 with a proper 2stroke ..... Imagine trying to push this heavy bastard.... I'm sure its easier to start though :)

victa-msp606-800x800.png


a battery mower couldn't really replace a contractor type mower. They wouldn't run for long enough without a charge.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
Plug in batteries?
 
Plug in batteries?
[/QUOTE]

We'll get there. I reckon those 2strokes have way more than double the power of the useless B&S stuck on the average push mower. That mower with its tiny little 2stroke will cut anything you can push it onto (it just opens the governers and gets to work). If the grass it too long to push it onto, you lift its nose and drop it down onto the grass in "bites" .... so it will also cut grass that is to long to push it onto. They are remarkable things, I don't understand how that weeny little motor does what it does :)

To have an electric motor putting out that sort of torque and power contantly, you would need enormous battery packs (probably a 3phase heavy duty plug in motor). I'm guessing the old 2stroke is at least 5hp.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
Whilst driving home the other night, my eagle eye spotted something on the side of the road, in front of a posh house, and between the land rovers and mercs.
It was as I'd suspected, a late model victa 2 stroke. mulch and catch, maybe 10 years old, hard to tell, but what was clear by the totally unblemished underside paint, was it had never cut grass.
Probably never even had fuel in the tank. If it had it had long since evaporated
Of course it started first pull, and even had that burning paint smell only a brand new device emits as the newness is burned off the cooling fins and muffler .
I was so excited the whole street got its nature strip mowed!!!

What made it so sweet, was that up until now I've been doing the diminutive sized lawn (50m3??) with either a push rotor mower or a little ozito 240v POS with maybe a 18cm cutting deck. That ozito mower makes a small lawn seem big!!!
In contrast, I feel like now I'm bringing a gun to a knife fight.

The first time I did the the back lawn, it really was a multi sensory affair...sound, smell, smoke filling the house (ah, the old days)... and of course the wife came running out fuming that I hadn't shut the back door and the house had filled with smoke, complaining that a mower like this should not be legal.....:cool:
She did like the superior cut that a brand new mower gave though.
Jo
 
jo proffi said:
Whilst driving home the other night, my eagle eye spotted something on the side of the road, in front of a posh house, and between the land rovers and mercs.
It was as I'd suspected, a late model victa 2 stroke. mulch and catch, maybe 10 years old, hard to tell, but what was clear by the totally unblemished underside paint, was it had never cut grass.
Probably never even had fuel in the tank. If it had it had long since evaporated
Of course it started first pull, and even had that burning paint smell only a brand new device emits as the newness is burned off the cooling fins and muffler .
I was so excited the whole street got its nature strip mowed!!!

What made it so sweet, was that up until now I've been doing the diminutive sized lawn (50m3??) with either a push rotor mower or a little ozito 240v POS with maybe a 18cm cutting deck. That ozito mower makes a small lawn seem big!!!
In contrast, I feel like now I'm bringing a gun to a knife fight.

The first time I did the the back lawn, it really was a multi sensory affair...sound, smell, smoke filling the house (ah, the old days)... and of course the wife came running out fuming that I hadn't shut the back door and the house had filled with smoke, complaining that a mower like this should not be legal.....:cool:
She did like the superior cut that a brand new mower gave though.
Jo
Click to expand...

Don't overdo the twostroke oil mix ratio, Jo!
 
DoubleChevron said:
Plug in batteries?
Click to expand...

We'll get there. I reckon those 2strokes have way more than double the power of the useless B&S stuck on the average push mower. That mower with its tiny little 2stroke will cut anything you can push it onto (it just opens the governers and gets to work). If the grass it too long to push it onto, you lift its nose and drop it down onto the grass in "bites" .... so it will also cut grass that is to long to push it onto. They are remarkable things, I don't understand how that weeny little motor does what it does :)

To have an electric motor putting out that sort of torque and power contantly, you would need enormous battery packs (probably a 3phase heavy duty plug in motor). I'm guessing the old 2stroke is at least 5hp.

seeya,
Shane L.
[/QUOTE]
I had a Honda with a Yamaha "Blue Thunder" engine on it. Most useless thing ever, totally gutless. Replaced with a new Chinese one for $200. This worked perfectly plenty of grunt and quiet, more noise from the blades than the engine. This was for the holiday house, using a 2 stroke Victa at home, probably the last of the Australian made units.
 
jo proffi said:
Whilst driving home the other night, my eagle eye spotted something on the side of the road, in front of a posh house, and between the land rovers and mercs.
It was as I'd suspected, a late model victa 2 stroke. mulch and catch, maybe 10 years old, hard to tell, but what was clear by the totally unblemished underside paint, was it had never cut grass.
Probably never even had fuel in the tank. If it had it had long since evaporated
Of course it started first pull, and even had that burning paint smell only a brand new device emits as the newness is burned off the cooling fins and muffler .
I was so excited the whole street got its nature strip mowed!!!

What made it so sweet, was that up until now I've been doing the diminutive sized lawn (50m3??) with either a push rotor mower or a little ozito 240v POS with maybe a 18cm cutting deck. That ozito mower makes a small lawn seem big!!!
In contrast, I feel like now I'm bringing a gun to a knife fight.

The first time I did the the back lawn, it really was a multi sensory affair...sound, smell, smoke filling the house (ah, the old days)... and of course the wife came running out fuming that I hadn't shut the back door and the house had filled with smoke, complaining that a mower like this should not be legal.....:cool:
She did like the superior cut that a brand new mower gave though.
Jo
Click to expand...

When there working properly they don't blow smoke. Throttle wide open.... motor loaded to the max ... governer wide open ...... Try cutting the lawn at one of the local commission houses and you'll see what I mean (ie: chest height thick green grass that hasn't been cut in years).

2strokes aren't at the best running almost unloaded :)

seeya
Shane L.
 
About Lawnmowers:
It might be good to for some to know that one shouldn't use any ethanol blends in either 4 or 2 stroke mowers.

Use straight un-leaded or premium grade as these fuels don't go stale [like ethanol blends do in weeks] & @ the end of the mowing season run the mower till it runs out of fuel. This fuel specification applies to your rarely used vintage automobiles as well.

I used to bring in Husqvana ride on mowers from the US by the 40 foot container load, in the early 2000's.

All with mulching blades & no issues except a few people continually trying to jump start, screwing up the charging system!
 
Well I'm going to have to learn how the governer circuit works on a 2strke. as this one still isn't right. No doubt a rubber line/membrane deteriated or centripetal weight stuck somewhere ....
 
DoubleChevron said:
Well I'm going to have to learn how the governer circuit works on a 2strke. as this one still isn't right. No doubt a rubber line/membrane deteriated or centripetal weight stuck somewhere ....
Click to expand...
Hi Shane :)
Just to bust a few myths first. The two stroke Victas did not have much power and certainly not twice that of a 4 stroke. BUT they were designed to do that specific job and did it well and the torque riseing as the revs fall is perfect for grass cutting. Victa only claimed about 4HP for the 160s and a bit more, unspecified, for the later hi-power models with the big air tube.
Kim an engine just does not care what the load is, cutting grass or driving a genny or a fan. The B&S motors had a variety of optional flywheels, carbys etc etc that could tailor them for any application if the manufacturer would spend the money well. A lot did not option them to suit
or just used the smallest 3.5HP mower engine. I always liked a 4 stroke and usually had a 4HP with the better carby and filter and IC options. Worked them till they were worn out. The first Victas were designed to have less problems than the Villers powered early pommie style mowers because they would not last in our rough blocks in the 50s. I could go on but !!!!!:rolleyes:

No Victa 2stroke I know of had centrifugal governors. They all used air flaps on the early ones or an air pressure diaphram . The plastic carby is actually a very subtle thing that people hate because it is too simple for most to understand !! Your perfect carby Shane, subtle ?? Needs to be put together correctly and with the correct parts that fit that model and the diaphram is clamped properly with the throttle cable fitted in the cam socket. Easy really. But they were a lot of model variations of that plastic carby over the 50 years it was made.🥴

But Victa did design it so the fuel mixture controls it as well. It richens up as the revs rise to governed speed and that will keep up the oil and helps limit the top speed. As the speed drops under load the mixture is better for cleaner running and power. BUT the air intake and filter body hole is vital to setting the mixture and prevents the engine running without a filter ! Designed in. So if the snorkel is holed or split or the later model stater O rings are leaking air, that upsets the mixture too. An air leaks anywhere cause problems! A 2stroke needs the crankcase to pump properly to run properly. I could go on but cleaning the carby on both the fuel and the air side and correctly assembling will get it back to working as it should. Do not loose the small parts, eg the fuel needle.:devilish:
Info; https://www.outdoorking.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/66125/3.html
Jaahn
PS B&S now owns Victa and Rover and all the other Aussie brands as far as I know. They just trade on the name loyalty.
 
jaahn said:
Hi Shane :)
Just to bust a few myths first. The two stroke Victas did not have much power and certainly not twice that of a 4 stroke. BUT they were designed to do that specific job and did it well and the torque riseing as the revs fall is perfect for grass cutting. Victa only claimed about 4HP for the 160s and a bit more, unspecified, for the later hi-power models with the big air tube.
Kim an engine just does not care what the load is, cutting grass or driving a genny or a fan. The B&S motors had a variety of optional flywheels, carbys etc etc that could tailor them for any application if the manufacturer would spend the money well. A lot did not option them to suit
or just used the smallest 3.5HP mower engine. I always liked a 4 stroke and usually had a 4HP with the better carby and filter and IC options. Worked them till they were worn out. The first Victas were designed to have less problems than the Villers powered early pommie style mowers because they would not last in our rough blocks in the 50s. I could go on but !!!!!:rolleyes:

No Victa 2stroke I know of had centrifugal governors. They all used air flaps on the early ones or an air pressure diaphram . The plastic carby is actually a very subtle thing that people hate because it is too simple for most to understand !! Your perfect carby Shane, subtle ?? Needs to be put together correctly and with the correct parts that fit that model and the diaphram is clamped properly with the throttle cable fitted in the cam socket. Easy really. But they were a lot of model variations of that plastic carby over the 50 years it was made.🥴

But Victa did design it so the fuel mixture controls it as well. It richens up as the revs rise to governed speed and that will keep up the oil and helps limit the top speed. As the speed drops under load the mixture is better for cleaner running and power. BUT the air intake and filter body hole is vital to setting the mixture and prevents the engine running without a filter ! Designed in. So if the snorkel is holed or split or the later model stater O rings are leaking air, that upsets the mixture too. An air leaks anywhere cause problems! A 2stroke needs the crankcase to pump properly to run properly. I could go on but cleaning the carby on both the fuel and the air side and correctly assembling will get it back to working as it should. Do not loose the small parts, eg the fuel needle.:devilish:
Info; https://www.outdoorking.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/66125/3.html
Jaahn
PS B&S now owns Victa and Rover and all the other Aussie brands as far as I know. They just trade on the name loyalty.
Click to expand...

Ok ... sounds like I'm going in search of air leaks everywhere. I bet it has a non-genuine air filter in it too.

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this is it .... I have no idea how old it is .... or what model the motor is. I do know it still has plenty of power and cuts grass way better than any modern mower. Its done so much work, the tread is worn through on the rear wheels
 
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Shane that is a super 600 professional commercial mower. Probably an excouncil mower ! It has the higher power motor. I forget the engine model. That site I gave has a lot of information and a forum. Parts too. But a comment ! You must use the correct high performance V belt on it and you must tension the belt correctly, very tight, as per the instructions. Otherwise you will break either your shoulder or the starter cord ??? Hmmm ! 🥴
The actual filter is not so important, the filter body is, as it has a calibrated hole in the bottom to set the mixture correctly ! (like all Victa 2 strokes). It is possible the governor diaphram is not held in place, or the small hose and air pickup fitting(in the cowling) are not correctly fitted. Or the two governor springs are incorrectly fitted, or the fuel filter or main jet is partly blocked and reducing the fuel flow which causes reving. All usual problems. Note that fuel jet is a special size and marked on the end ! All Victa jets should have a gauze around it to keep the shit out of it, do not take that off like everybody else does!!
Jaahn
 
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