Introduction

[bradza]

hi everyone , new to the site ...was hoping someone might have some advice regarding peugeot BSi's ..peugeot 407 HDI 2006 in particular ... not sure if i should just start asking my question ? not 100% on the protocol .

thanks

 

[dimistyle]

Fire away....you have nothing to loose.
Welcome to AF, we have many overseas french car enthusiasts on the forum any a lot of advice is available.

BSI body computers all have their qwerks


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[bradza]

hey dimistyle , thanks .. so heres my story .. fixed a leaking injector on my moms 407hdi .. primed the pump , but still ran the battery flat cranking it ...even burnt out the starter ... ive serviced the starter and charged the battery , but the car refuses to start , i tried to tow start it at 30kmph over at least a KM distance , still nothing . ive read alot about the bsi corrupting itself when batteries die . so i bought psa-com in an attempt to try reset the bsi and key . connected it but it requests the key pin which she doesnt have . this morning ill try go to the peugeot dealership and get the pin , ANYWAY , is there perhaps any advice of what i should be looking for on the psa-com ? anything i configure ? it seems as if the injectors are the only issue ? ive tow started my diesel musso and korandos with no issues in the past ...as long as theres diesel in the cylinder , it should at least start ..even if it doesnt run great , at least something , but this things dead . i cant get out of economy mode ...even with the psa-com .

 

[seasink]

PSA-com is a commercial OBD application. The manual is online. I would think few Australians use it, as most here have a Diagbox.

Economy mode is an attempt to save the battery, as the computers never shut down. It ends when the engine starts and charges the battery.

There are a couple of different diesels - do you know which one (eg RHR or RHH in the VIN)? Is the fuel actually reaching the high pressure pump? There is a short transparent tube in the fuel line, to see if it has air entrained. The two diesels mentioned have different arrangements - one lifts the fuel from the tank, the other sucks from the HP pump.

It might even be an immobiliser/key problem.

 

[bradza]

hey seasink ..thanks for the reply .. just a quick side question .. my thread title ..should i change it to reflect the conversation ? can it ? should it ? is it better to ?

onto business ... its an RHR .. it has the manual priming bulb just before the filter with obviously the main pipe heading toward the HP pump ..it also has what looks like breather screws on the filter , one top , one bottome with a soft low pressure plastic pipe connecting the two ... i think there is diesel getting to the injectors ...i unscrewed number 1 injector feeder pipe from the back of the injector and i squeezed the bulb and diesel trickled out by the injector / high pressure pipe area ... also i may be wrong , but i would imagine ANY air bubbles would get expelled when you tow for so long at such speed ? plus this thing was running ok with the one leaking injector , wasnt great but it started and ran rough ...wouldve left it if there wasnt diesel spewing out ... as for the economy mode , i charge the battery , let it sit over night so it loses any surface charge , test it with my multi meter , reads 12.8/12.9 ... refit it in the car , i follow the whole 10 seconds 15 seconds side lights procedure ... the economy mode isnt active , the radio works , the glovebox light works , then after maybe 2 - 3 maybe 5 minutes , the bsi clicks and economy is back , windows dont work etc , if i disconnect the battery let it sit a few minutes then repeat , same thing ..economy stays off for only a few minutes ... in psa-com it says the economy can only be switched off if the battery voltage is above 12.1v ... my multimeter says the battery is good , but the psa-com sometimes puts the voltage at 10v ...ive even used other batteries ... cant remove economy ... not sure if thats the cause of my problems ? because the car should still start in economy , thats how its designed , right ?

 

[seasink]

It's an RHR, so that's a start. These engines lift the fuel from the tank pump. Does the pump work with sufficient pressure? Have you looked at the fuel filter? The cap unscrews with a suitable spanner. There are accounts of doing it here. There is a breather in the filter cap and a water valve and drain in the bottom, which should also be checked.

It isn't a good idea to casually undo the HP pipe, as these joints can leak under the very high pressures.

Economy mode should go away when it starts. Has anything happened to the key lately - it contains a chip detected by the immobiliser.

 

[bradza]

with regard to the pressure at the pump ..if i connect psa-com and tow with the key on or if i take another shot at cranking with the starter , psa-com should tell me my pressure and if theres an error ? is that correct ? ive heard the pump must run at 200 bar ? is that correct ? is there a way i can short the injectors to keep them ALL open just while i crank ? just for a few seconds to get it running ? is that ridiculous ? is it an option ? nothing happened to the key , when economy mode is off the remote central locking works great , it turns the ignition , but going back to bsi , it may be that the immobiliser isnt really switching off ...even though it seems it is ? is that a possibility ?

 

[dimistyle]

Question did you attempt jump starting as there is a small possibility damage has occurred to the BSI. Other things to check is the shunt fuse on BSI moved to wrong position check owners manual for correct location.
What other error codes appear in PSA-com? There might be a clue.
Any immobilizer type lights on cluster?
Not sure if TDC sensor wiring disturbed while injectors being replaced.

Also 5 mins for economy mode is pretty short but without pin you won't be able to modify I always use 03114 for minor changes but you need key code for relearning keys if required.

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[bradza]

I did try jump it yeah , also thought I may have fried it , but hopefully not , as the bsi seems to work kind of ok ..windows work , radio works until economy kicks in . Is it possible that its fried but it still works intermitantly ?? Shunt fuse I've played with , seems ok .. this model only has a Fs1 position ( not looking at the car but its fs or something like that ) ..I think this model you remove the shunt completely when you wish to store ...theres no parc position ... as for the tdc sensor .. is it by the crank ? Accessible easily ? When I return home I'll connect the psa-com and see what errors it throws .. can I post the screenshots here ? ..that 03114 what is that exactly ? I thought key pins are 4 digits ? Letters and numbers ?

 

[dimistyle]

That pin is just for minor BSI changes not sure upto which year but worked on the 2004.
Diagbox/Lexia requests a pin which is not the key code.

Yes you can fry certain functions hence check current error to ensure all ECU can be seen.

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[bradza]

im heading home to try crank it and gets see what faults show up .. going to fill the tank just in case and reprime the HP pump with the hand pump ... please advise on the exact procedure ... are there any special tricks ? those breather screws you mentioned ..do i fiddle with them while i squeeze or do i just squeeze the hand primer till its hard ? is that it ?

 

[bradza]

connected psa-com with the key in and switched to on position.. did a clear of any codes present . primed the pump by hand and turned the key , car cranked but wont start .... then had someone crank while i sprayed easy start and the car runs , but only on the easy start spray , it wont run if i stop spraying into the intake .
ive attached screenshots of the errors and live data . you'll notice on the live data the max the fuel pressured measured was 39 bar , theres also a bunch of readings that im not familiar with ..perhaps someone can tell me what they mean ( cylinder flow correction ) . also on the live data theres a reading of the measured injected flow ( 15.42 mg/impulse ) , please advise if this is good or bad and where is that measured ? at the tip of the injector ?
the bsi itself looks good , doesnt look like theres any errors there ... at one stage it said that the engine control unit was locked , but that changed when i cranked (ive uploaded both screenshots showing locked and unlocked ) .
The one screenshot shows the BSI MATCHED and BSI COMMUNICATION STATUS as active , but my concern on the one screenshot you'll notice it says remote controls arent synchronised ?

when the car was running off easy start , i was priming the hand pump but it was collapsing on itself , like a vacuum .. i assume thats bad ? even when i prime it , it goes hard but doesnt stay hard ... should that hand pump stay solid ? under normal conditions with no air bubbles in the fuel , should it be solid ?

guys when u get sum time , please take a look at the screenshots of the data attached , i'd really appreciate any input . thanks

 

[bradza]

screenshots attached

i think theres still one more pic of the errors after i cranked

 

[dimistyle]

BSI and keys look to be correct.

Will let the experts explain the fueling control and the EGR error maybe a clue, also the airflow target is 0; does not seem correct?
Disconnect airflow sensor (after the air filter box)and see if the measurement changes.



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[seasink]

From the PSA manual (EGR open - 'learning' in psa-com translates 'apprentissage')-

P1462 Apprentissage vanne EGR, état bloquée ouverte

dérive rapide ou lente de l' apprentissage de la butée haute de la vanne EGR

 

[dmccurtayne]

Undo the egr valve pipe from the air intake pipe silver pipe coming from the back of the engine just pull it out enough so it doesn’t affect they intake air flow and see if it starts


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[kelpiebat]

Just so we're all on the same page bradza. You started with a RHR that ran but with 1 injector faulty so it was replaced and now won't run. So the logical problem is no fuel getting to the injectors. By using easy start the engine will run and as the HP pump is driven by the cam it must be turning if it is not broken, which it wasn't before. So even with the pump turning the injectors are starved or not being told to squirt fuel, but they were before the injector replacement. Short of something quite extraordinary happening the logical problem has to be related to whatever was done during the injector swap.

My RHRs rely upon the HP pump to suck the fuel from the tank. On top of the fuel filter housing is a vent for discharging air when priming, and at the bottom is a similar vent with plastic hose attached for draining water and fuel. By priming with either open you will get a flow/discharge. Perhaps an important electrical connection was disturbed during the swap.