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Euro companies in general are very serious about going green. Legislation is forcing them.

I have just come back from a short tour and was surprised to see that even the BMW X whatever (you know the SUV range) are hybrid over there. Almost every car in Europe will have to adhere to strict emission standards which are going higher and higher. You can see the results in the street. Streets are full of bicycles, many of them electric/hybrid, and every second car is some sort of alternative to IC-only. They take climate problems seriously, so manufacturers adapt. Even Dacia has a hybrid coming up and plans to launch an affordable EV in the near future. The writing is on the wall.
 
The closures of OEM production line in the ICE supply train will only get more serious for many unions and workers in general.
Most cars in Europe are via leasing and subscriptions and residuals matter.........that’s the ticking time bomb.
PSA seem to be in a haze of self deception compared to VAG Daimler and BMW.
It’s a case of the quick or the dead IMO.


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In a world of massive automobile production, over 75 million vehicles, the traditional west European manufacturing nations are increasingly irrelevant. Within the EU manufacturing has moved to the cheap labour countries of Eastern Europe at the expense of traditional manufacturing countries like France and Britain which are stuck at production levels of three decades ago. Germany is the exception. If the bureaucrats of Brussels decide to strangle petrol and diesel engine production in favour of a green ideal, that will simply make the EU products even less relevant on a world market dominated by Asian production and in which alternative powered vehicles are but a very small part. But that will not happen. German makers will simply move their engine manufacture offshore to service the rest of the world.
 
Russell Hall said:
In a world of massive automobile production, over 75 million vehicles, the traditional west European manufacturing nations are increasingly irrelevant. Within the EU manufacturing has moved to the cheap labour countries of Eastern Europe at the expense of traditional manufacturing countries like France and Britain which are stuck at production levels of three decades ago. Germany is the exception. If the bureaucrats of Brussels decide to strangle petrol and diesel engine production in favour of a green ideal, that will simply make the EU products even less relevant on a world market dominated by Asian production and in which alternative powered vehicles are but a very small part. But that will not happen. German makers will simply move their engine manufacture offshore to service the rest of the world.
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China is taxing ICE out of the affordable range apparently simply because you can’t see far in Beijing on many days.
The air, like that in Indian cities, is dangerous many days of the year and Xi is going to clean up the mess efficiently without having to debate it.
He is personally enthusiastic about his Tesla intervention.


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Old East European saying. In the West, fairy tales begin with " once upon a time". In the East they begin with " in the future there will be".
The internal combustion engine powers 35 out of every 36 new vehicles in the world and there is nothing in international production statistics to challenge this dominance.
 
All the traffic in Beijing going in one direction only -


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That shows very little understanding of what Euro manufacturers think and indeed the EU public (as always, I exclude the UK for obvious reasons). German manufacturers won't shift production elsewhere simply because that is not what they want. They will build plants elsewhere, but those will only build cars for other markets. None will be imported back to any EU country. And so will do the others. The mantra in Europe is very different from Australia and the US. They keep manufacturing at home simply because they are used to high quality products, not cheap junk. Of all asian manufacturers, Japan and South Korea have managed to infiltrate the EU, and that is only because they managed to lift their quality and standards to EU level. This trend will continue, and as always, the EU will be at the forefront of modern transport be it with electric or other solutions. If this is a model that will not be followed, yes, their domestic manufacturing will become irrelevant for the rest of the world. Given however that the rest of the world doesn't seem to have better ideas, I would say they will continue to lead. Politicians in Brussels legislate to what their respective electorates expect, contrary to what the UK and other ignorants think.

Even then, they will continue to manufacture in specific overseas markets for those markets whilst trying to slowly creep in the Euro standards' cars.

One possible exception is China, who appears indeed motivated (for good reason) to do something about pollution. They may come up with some clever solution, hopefully to give Europeans a good run for their money.
 
CATL, BYD, Byton and Polestar are just a few of the Chinese electric players with exports on their mind in the current 5 year plan.
They can deliver by diktat/dictate .


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It is a mistake to view the EU as in any way homogenous and as stresses increase it will have an uncertain future. The EU runs a highly restrictive sheltered workshop economic system under heavy trade protections. German manufacturers have already moved production within the EU to lower wage countries and produce for export elsewhere. Europeans are only allowed the buying choices Brussels allows for them. Which includes a fair share of cheap junk and low quality. An increasingly irrelevant German dominated trading bloc that is in no way a world economic leader.
 
Russell Hall said:
It is a mistake to view the EU as in any way homogenous and as stresses increase it will have an uncertain future. The EU runs a highly restrictive sheltered workshop economic system under heavy trade protections. German manufacturers have already moved production within the EU to lower wage countries and produce for export elsewhere. Europeans are only allowed the buying choices Brussels allows for them. Which includes a fair share of cheap junk and low quality. An increasingly irrelevant German dominated trading bloc that is in no way a world economic leader.
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It’s more democratic than the US is but the freedom to not vote has had it’s consequences for both.
Mitch McConnell is the enabler in chief for the failing state.


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Most people who have never set foot in the EU (let alone live there or properly researched the topic) espouse all sorts of rubbish opinions about it. Apart from economy, in which the EU is a force, there are other aspects of importance to the people who live there. Few people in Australia seem to understand that all the way to the top (?) politicians who make themselves (and us) the laughing stock of Europeans when such rubbish becomes apparent over there. Remember Julia Gillard who tried to lecture the EU about economic management during the GFC? Abruptly put in her place by the president of the European Commission who pointed out that Australia was lucky because it rode the storm on the back of China, not because of good economic management. Julia however is not a singular case. Her level of knowledge in general (not just economic) is widespread in Australia as demonstrated above in this thread.

Mill away, the EU will keep doing what it's doing whilst we dig shit up and try to sell it.
 
Depends on who you listen to. You have a favourable view of the EU, many do not, both residents and those who trade with them. The EU is not a good citizen in trade matters. Australia weathered the GFC far better than many and for example doesn't have the entrenched youth unemployment of France. EU agricultural policies are highly restrictive, deliver some surprisingly poor quality food and damage stable world trade by subsidised dumping. Australia has nothing positive to learn from the EU.
 
Gee Schlitz, I agree with some of your sentiment but there are some broad brush strokes there that may be a little unfair.

(I have set foot in the wonderful EU).
 
Russell Hall said:
Depends on who you listen to. You have a favourable view of the EU, many do not, both residents and those who trade with them. The EU is not a good citizen in trade matters. Australia weathered the GFC far better than many and for example doesn't have the entrenched youth unemployment of France. EU agricultural policies are highly restrictive, deliver some surprisingly poor quality food and damage stable world trade by subsidised dumping. Australia has nothing positive to learn from the EU.
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Well I’m pretty sure the great British public are going to appreciate the chlorine washed chicken fro America, the antibiotic and hormone fed beef also and appreciate not being subjected to socialist medicine and affordable pharmaceuticals........for a start.


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The great British public will not miss the diseased horsemeat sold as beef mince in the wonderful EU but will once again have access to high quality Australian agricultural produce, the best in the world.
 
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