Hoist - what?!

schlitzaugen

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I am in the process of designing a shed and would like to make it future proof in the sense that it may one day accommodate a hoist. Which I know nothing about.

So here's the question(s). What is the footprint of a hoist and how much height do I need? Anyone have experience with these thigns? I would like to leave enough room around the hoist to have the shed functional so to speak with a car on it at full height.

Thank you in advance.

Oh, and by the way, just so I don't get booted out of the forum, shed and hoist are for french cars only.
 
What sort of hoist? 2 post or 4 post? Did you want to be able to have a car underneath while having a car on the hoist? or is it solely for working on the car.

If its solely for working on the car, 2 post will be the go. If you want to store a car up there, I'd recommend a 4 post.
As far as footprint goes, this is the layout of my 4 post hoist - mine is a high lift model (Tufflift TL3.6PH-L)
  1. Column Height 2476mm
  2. Lifting Height 2165mm
  3. Clearance Under Runways 2055mm
  4. Overall Width (excl. motor) 2617 mm
  5. Overall Length (incl. ramps) 5303 mm
  6. Overall Length (excl. ramps) 4445 mm

More of a discussion here:
https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?threads/car-hoists-styles-and-types.141204/#post-1681666
 
2100 will cover the height of most domestic vehicles.
so forAxGT’s 4 poster you’ll want +4500 ceiling.
of course less will work,but more is more, especially when the thick head in you comes out, and you hoist something through the ceiling..
 
Yep, good point Jo, sorry I missed roof space. That is often the hardest part.
 
Another thing to consider is the concrete depth. When I had my 5.5 ton Molnar 2-post installed, they required a minimum thickness of concrete to bolt it to. It ended up costing more to have the section of concrete cut out, excavated and re-poured to the required thickness, than it did to buy the hoist in the first place :oops:
 
many hoist require 3 phase power ,another thing to factor in ,getting sufficient power to the shed/hoist ,
 
My 4 post is single phase, 2.2kw, and because the shed is on stand alone 1.5 kw solar, the inverter couldn't run it.
So I put a 4 pole motor on it, halving the amps and speed. As lift speed is not important, it's quite ok.
If you match the electric motor and hydraulic pump selection to the power available, it'll work. You could even make it pedal power if you were fit.
 
30 years ago, a mate of mine bought a massive old 4-post hoist for his shed. It's still in regular use.
He didn't have 3-phase power available, nor the supply needed to drive a large enough single phase motor. His solution to the problem?
Fit a single phase motor that he already had available, and adapt it to drive the hoist's gearbox through a spare 403 diff. It's slow but does the job nicely.
 
Thank you everybody.

I don't intend to park any car under the hoist so I suspect a 2 post would be good enough.

Roof space should not be a problem because the shed is not up yet. Very good point. I don't expect to have anything other than my 205GTI up on the hoist so 2.2 m plus what? 1.6? something like that? 4m should be plenty.

Good point about power. Don't plan on installing 3 phase, I guess it may be cheaper and easier to just buy a dedicated genie to drive the hoist. I would like a single phase though.

Thickness of concrete another good point. What was the required depth for yours, Demannu? I was planning on having a 20cm thick reinforced slab put in, would that cut it?

Thank you AxGT for size I will most likely go by your data when sizing the shed.

Buttercup, you mention electric motor and hydraulic pump. Does the electric motor drive the pump? I thought these things would be purely electrical. Or are you talking about one of those really nice hoists that lift the car and then have separate lifting mechanisms in the ramps so they can jack the car up off its wheels?
 
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Most or all of the modern 4 post hoists use long hydraulic cylinders under the deck to pull on cables that run up the posts, over a pulley and lift the deck.
The cylinders are fed oil from the pump which is driven by the electric motor.
The motor pump unit is mounted on one of the posts, with a small tank.
It uses the electric power to lift. Lowering is controlled by s small valve that lets oil from the cylinders back to the tank.
The the electric motor/ pump specs can be matched to whatever power is available. With a smaller unit it is slower, but it still works.
You can even use a 12v unit, or a manual pump.
The hoist and cylinders are the same, it's just the pump unit that is adapted to the available power.
If the supplier doesn't offer the option you want, ask around.
Your local hydraulics shop could offer lots of options.
 
Thank you, Buttercup. That integrates the details I spotted every here and there. I thought the motor itself pulled the cables probably because I never noticed the hydraulic rams.

But I realise now there may be three types of hoists, one with arms, one with ramps and one with ramps and supplementary platforms on the ramps. Or do all the hoists with ramps have those platforms?
 
Roof space should not be a problem because the shed is not up yet.
roof space is never a problem on sheds that are not up yet.
Its only after you commit to building the thing that you want to exceeds the limits you have set.
seriously, if there is no special reason for not doing it, make your shed taller than 4000mm
 
When I have the $$$ ( probably when I retire in 20years time). I'm thinking a 4post hoist you can wheel around. I love the version Derek has on vice grip garage.


in one episode he rolls around the "lift" with a car loaded on it. I like the idea of the sliding jack so you can lift each end with extendable booms similar to a 2post hoist. I would never trust any concrete I have enough to bolt a 2poster in :eek: ...

I've been thinking about this a lot lately (height and size). Without height you can't fit caravans, tractors, etc in the shed. I'm in the process of throwing up a leanto ( its taking forever .... we have rain, rain, rain.... and if not bloody rain, strong winds and rain). Its a big muddy bog beside the shed here.

leanto.jpg


Note: the "slight" height increase the leanto will have. For cheapness of build, it will have a row of poles down the middle at 6meters. So drop from 5meters down to about 4meteres over 12meters. So I can fit caravans/hoists/etc.

The easiest way to know the roof height you need, is probably to stand on the roof of the highest vehicle you ever tend to lift, and see how high you are up from the ground :roflmao:
 
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roof space is never a problem on sheds that are not up yet.
Its only after you commit to building the thing that you want to exceeds the limits you have set.
seriously, if there is no special reason for not doing it, make your shed taller than 4000mm

3.6 wall height in a modern shed, will give enough roof height (if you put a high door in the end). As there is no trusses in the way, the roof probably is 5meters high down the center of the shed depending on the angle the roof is pitched at.
 
Thickness of concrete another good point. What was the required depth for yours, Demannu? I was planning on having a 20cm thick reinforced slab put in, would that cut it?

It was 15 years ago, but I think the requirement was 200mm. The installers drilled into the floor and from memory it was only 150mm. Hence the subsequent excavation and re-concreting. They wouldn't give us the certificate of conformance that Workcover required from us unless we re-did the concrete, and I think it needed to extend about 400mm around the footprint of the hoist.

I believe the requirements are less for a 4 post hoist. The 2-post is not as inherently stable as a 4 post, and requires stronger anchors. Of course, correct use and loading of the vehicle on the 2-post hoist should mean that there is never a problem, but I guess the rules are written for the lowest common denominator!
 
Thank you, Buttercup. That integrates the details I spotted every here and there. I thought the motor itself pulled the cables probably because I never noticed the hydraulic rams.

But I realise now there may be three types of hoists, one with arms, one with ramps and one with ramps and supplementary platforms on the ramps. Or do all the hoists with ramps have those platforms?

Most of the cheap hoists you will find are 240volt unless you specify 3phase. This is a reseller of cheap chinese hoist we have locally.

https://www.aussiecarhoists.com.au/product-category/car-lifts-and-car-hoists/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Car_Hoists&utm_term=car hoists&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzq6QqrWR8gIVVjUrCh0q5g8tEAAYASAAEgJQRPD_BwE

I like the look of the extra long/wide on (you could lift caravans on it), especially given you can buy jacking beams to go on them. It sounds like you are after a 4 post hoist with belly lift ? I've seen them come up on ebay often enough. They usually have cut-outs for wheel alignment turntables ( search maybe for alignment hoist ? ). They are all industrial so will need 3phase conversion (unlike the chinese stuff you can now buy).

If you look most of the cheap old 2posters are screw type hoists. My uncle used to have them, he warned to be careful buying them, if the brass nuts were worn, you would wear out the lift screws rather than the sacrificial brass nuts (at least I think that is what he said years ago).
 
Thank you everybody.

I don't intend to park any car under the hoist so I suspect a 2 post would be good enough.

Roof space should not be a problem because the shed is not up yet. Very good point. I don't expect to have anything other than my 205GTI up on the hoist so 2.2 m plus what? 1.6? something like that? 4m should be plenty.

Good point about power. Don't plan on installing 3 phase, I guess it may be cheaper and easier to just buy a dedicated genie to drive the hoist. I would like a single phase though.

Thickness of concrete another good point. What was the required depth for yours, Demannu? I was planning on having a 20cm thick reinforced slab put in, would that cut it?

Thank you AxGT for size I will most likely go by your data when sizing the shed.

Buttercup, you mention electric motor and hydraulic pump. Does the electric motor drive the pump? I thought these things would be purely electrical. Or are you talking about one of those really nice hoists that lift the car and then have separate lifting mechanisms in the ramps so they can jack the car up off its wheels?
I would go with a 4 post, don't need to worry about the concrete thickness like you do with a 2 post. I bought a couple of Chinese 4 posters off EBay a few years ago and have been very happy with them. They did come with kits to allow you to roll them round with a car on them but I dynabolted mine straiģht to the slab.
Not rocket science to assemble/adjust and they run off a standard 10 amp 240V plug.
Half the one you see online are the same hoists as mine with a fancy "western" sounding name embellished on the uprights.
There was bugger all difference in price between the 2 and 4 post ones at the time.
Plenty of videos online of cars/trucks falling off 2 posters, not so much with 4 posters.
My shed has 8' side walls and I can fit my Minis up in the apex and the Mustang and DS underneath.
 
It was 15 years ago, but I think the requirement was 200mm. The installers drilled into the floor and from memory it was only 150mm. Hence the subsequent excavation and re-concreting. They wouldn't give us the certificate of conformance that Workcover required from us unless we re-did the concrete, and I think it needed to extend about 400mm around the footprint of the hoist.

I believe the requirements are less for a 4 post hoist. The 2-post is not as inherently stable as a 4 post, and requires stronger anchors. Of course, correct use and loading of the vehicle on the 2-post hoist should mean that there is never a problem, but I guess the rules are written for the lowest common denominator!
200mm is correct however you can now buy re-enforcement plates to spread the load, which allows you to fit a 2 post hoist to a 100mm thick slab
 
When I asked a local company I was told reinforced concrete is actually a structure with two plates of steel about 2m by 3m and about 10cm apart connected by steel rods welded to both plates. For a thicker slab they would probably use two of these "boxes" on top of each other and use as many as needed to cover the entire area.
 
When I asked a local company I was told reinforced concrete is actually a structure with two plates of steel about 2m by 3m and about 10cm apart connected by steel rods welded to both plates. For a thicker slab they would probably use two of these "boxes" on top of each other and use as many as needed to cover the entire area.
They were taking the piss!!
 
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