head on 504

P

peatman_wg

New member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Messages
3
Location
sydney, NSW, Australia
i am currently looking at buying a 404 with a 504 motor the engine blows a lot of smoke and i believe that the head needs replacing Is this the problem and if so how much would i be looking at to fix either new or second hand? Is it possible to do it myself ? whats involved? the car is in great nick almost no rust etc. so i dont want this to get in the way of a possible great car. I have a 504 gl but have not had to face this problem yet
 
If it blows alot of smoke all the time, it probably needs new rings. If you fix the engine yourself you're looking at some costs like this:
-$120 rings
-$45 big end bearings
-$80 gasket kit
-$200 head re-conditioned (must be done by a workshop with the write tools to grind the valve seats)
They are a pretty easy engine to fix yourself, and it's really the way to go unless you don't mind spending big dollars to have some one else do the work.

Another alternative is to buy a reasonable second hand engine. You should be able to find a reasonable 504 or 505 engine for $200-$300 (make sure you check the compression before you buy one).

I have a good 404 engine which I have for sale for $300, but it's very gutless compared to a 504 engine. I live in Camden, just outside Sydney.

Regards,
Dave
 
Perhaps an indication of just when - ie. under what circumstances - it blows smoke will give us a better idea...

Someone suggesting it needs a new head might mean it's valve stem seals, but that might not be rightg.
 
Originally posted by peatman_wg:
<strong>i am currently looking at buying a 404 with a 504 motor the engine blows a lot of smoke and i believe that the head needs replacing </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd be suspecting a more serious problem than a head if its blowing a LOT of smoke. While it could be something minor, it could be a lot worse - anything up to a new set of pistons and liners - which will set you back around $850 for parts alone even before you start buying a gasket set, have the head serviced, bearings etc etc.

As Ray says, some more info would be helpful. What colour is the smoke? (white and it might just be a head gasket, light grey and it might just be a tuning probem, blue grey and its probably something much more nasty) When does it come out? (on idle, on deceleration, on acceleration or other heavy load, all the time?)

A compression test could tell you a lot, and a compression guage doesn't cost too much to buy.

My recommendation, though, would be to only buy the car if you can afford a good second hand motor and have the knowledge and equipment to fit it yourself. The sale price of the vehicle should reflect this. Cars with dead or dying engines don't command high prices.

Cheers

Rod
Click to expand...
 
Cheers all the information that u have given me has helped alot. I think the best solution will be to buy another motor and replace the parts. Dave your engine sounds interesting if not for me i may have another buyer for you i will be in touch.
 
I had anothor look at the 404 today and this time was able to start the car and see what the guy ment by smoke. The smoke was white and was more evident when the car was reving there was no huge amounts of smoke but i would still like to fix the problem.
 
Sounds like either:
-a blown head gasket ($28 plus head shave to fix)
-corroded head (maybe $100 to have welded)
-cracked head (maybe $60-$100 for another head +$100 for valve seat job plus shave)

Dave
 
White smoke can also mean that brake fluid is leaking into the brake servo and being sucked into the inlet manifold through the vacuum pipe.

Stuey
 
Originally posted by Stuey:
<strong>White smoke can also mean that brake fluid is leaking into the brake servo and being sucked into the inlet manifold through the vacuum pipe.

Stuey</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, a variant of this happened on my daughter's 504. It had a leaky joint in the exhaust at the rear end of the downpipe. The brake master cylinder failed and brake fluid ran down the down pipe and insinuated itself into the muffler system through the leak.

After standing for a couple of weeks, waiting for the repair of the master cylinder, the "special effects" created were quite spectacular when the muffler warmed up. If HMS Hood had been equipt with smoke making gear like that, it would never have been sunk by the Japanese!

The smoke has a distinctive odour, quite different to the fairly neutral smell that you get from the steam with a headgasket problem. Like the smell of transmission fluid on a hot exhaust pipe.

Cheers

Rod

[ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</p>
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Rod Hagen:
<strong>

Yes, a variant of this happened on my daughter's 504. It had a leaky joint in the exhaust at the rear end of the downpipe. The brake master cylinder failed and brake fluid ran down the down pipe and insinuated itself into the muffler system through the leak.
[ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

My 404 used to do a similar thing. The cap on the clutch fluid reservoir did not seal very well, so sometimes, just after it had been filled, a little fluid would spill onto the exhaust while driving, creating interesting white smoke effects, with a horrible smell.

Dave
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Rod Hagen:


If HMS Hood had been equipt with smoke making gear like that, it would never have been sunk by the Japanese!

<hr></blockquote>

Whoops, as Ranger has kindly reminded me , the Hood was sunk by the Bismark, not the Japanese. In the interests of historical accuracy, it was the Prince of Wales (and the Repulse) that could have benefitted from brake fluid in the exhaust system when confronting the Japanese!

The error was made by some ageing brain cells.

Cheers

Rod

[ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</p>
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top