Graeme's R8 Gordini Rebuild !!!

[renault8&10]

That alternator mount is a work of art. I was wondering what is was from the first engine pic. Glad you took one from the other side.
Interesting facet mounting too. I like it but not sure I'd want fuel and coil too close together like that - yes I know the mechanical one is the same, but at least if the engine stops so does the fuel. From memory you were going to put an lpg style cutoff though weren't you!
KB

 

[geckoeng]

KB, it now has a Megajolt, and the coils are miles away, which was intended right at the beginning. Alternator mount is normal for Gordini Alternator. Although later I fit a 55 amp Suzuki unit, after the modified original lets the smoke out the wire.

Ray

 

[geckoeng]

Back From Paint !!!!

OK, to start here I need to show the small amount of patching needed for this car.

The RH “B” pillar had taken quite a wack at some time. The sill had been replaced, very professionally, as you had to look very close to see the repair. But they were not able to get a good pillar or removed this one pulled it apart and straightened. Basically it was the right shape, but rough. And you could see the cuts and welding to get it back in. Done well (??) [Christian would have done better] Once body fillered and shaped you couldn’t tell. I also had to replace the LH front fender, it was beyond repair, and "exfrogger" came to help there.




It came back from body shop, looking like a “million bucks”!!!! I had seen the first coats and it looked good but the finish coats were very nice. The worst part was trying to hang up all the parts, until I needed to fit them. So I made brackets that clipped to my racking frames and hung them high in the air.

 

[geckoeng]

The Roll Cage !!!

I jumped ahead a bit there, because before the body went for paint, I sent it to Brad Stacy, in Perth, to have a simple roll hoop made for when Graeme is in competition. As much as I don't want the car damaged in an accident, much more I don't want Graeme damaged in an accident. And seeing now how the car goes, I am even more satisfied with the minor precaution of a proper cage.

 

[geckoeng]

Re-Building the Dash !!!

It had come time to actually start building the car. It would be done part project at a time, and the first thing was to get the dashboard rebuilt, so I knew where all the electrics would connect to and run from. Graeme wanted to do some work on the car, so while I was servicing other parts he came in and with a table and chair and a few bins and boxes started stripping all the dash components. He soon got the hang of it after asking questions when not quite sure, eventually it was all stripped and all the parts stored away. Graeme was not impressed with what we ended up with, and I realized the task ahead.

The wood veneer, was horrible and very worn, and a lot of extra holes for switches and instruments had been cut in, making it look like Swiss cheese. Graeme was adamant that it would not be wood again. A few months earlier I had re-done the dash for my 16TX, and I had used aluminium covered Formica. And I showed him. Instant success, that is what he wanted.

So the tin dash was completely sanded with my small sander and the drill with flapper wheels. All the rust gone and treated. Primed and painted on the back still raw on the front. Cut a piece of the Formica, cut to size, and with a liberal coat of NoNails stuck the 2 together, and with all the heavy objects in the workshop put it face down on my work table and loaded it on the back.

It was now time to cut out all the holes for switches and gauges. My Dremel worked very well to do the rough cut and then finishing. From what we needed some holes were not needed and were left covered. I then started laying in the wires for the dash loom, and connecting up to the multi plugs which would connect it to the rest of the car. With 3 multi plugs we were done, and the dash could be disconnected and removed from the car complete. After a few days work the dash was completed and dummy tested in situ. Magic to see the lights work and switches work remote lights which would become parts of the car.

For Graeme’s next visit, I left it all in the car. Very impressive !!!

 

[Frans]

Well done Ray. I like the way you utilized the fuel pump cover to mount the electric pump. It is like Carlo Abarth's motto: "Never use a bolt and nut to mount one thing only". I noticed the oil filter lock mechanism and I know that it was law in ZA for racing, but I always thought that it was an overkill. Have you ever seen an oilfilter undo itself:crazy:

Question, did you do the upper dashboard cover (soft part) yourself or was it dash specialists? Who made the extractors and is it based on some proven design? Have you used my MegaJolt advance map?

Good to see it used well!

Frans.

 

[geckoeng]

Hi Frans,
I have seen oil filters loose, but only because none mechanical people have changed them. My wife had her R10 serviced by a mechanic friend while I was on military call up and it came undone. Fortunately she saw the light and gauge and stopped the engine. And since them all my motors have had the clamp fitted. The electric pump is also from way back.

The dash cushion is original and in very good condition. Probably because the car has always been stored inside.

I tried all of the Megajolt programs, and eventually went back to the in programmed package and modified it with parts that worked from your programs. When my friend gets back from an extended trip I will put it on the dyno and do the finishing touches. My Dyno is a long steep hill near the workshop, for carbs and ignition under full load, a lot of fun.

Ray

 

[JohnW]

Well done Ray. I like the way you utilized the fuel pump cover to mount the electric pump. It is like Carlo Abarth's motto: "Never use a bolt and nut to mount one thing only". I noticed the oil filter lock mechanism and I know that it was law in ZA for racing, but I always thought that it was an overkill. Have you ever seen an oilfilter undo itself:crazy:

Question, did you do the upper dashboard cover (soft part) yourself or was it dash specialists? Who made the extractors and is it based on some proven design? Have you used my MegaJolt advance map?

Good to see it used well!

Frans.

What, I wonder, was the equivalent Colin Chapman quotation? Certainly he never used belt AND braces..... You can imagine how nice this G is I'm sure Frans. As I've said before, there are now more R8 Gordinis in Perth than R8 non-Gordinis!

 

[Frans]

What, I wonder, was the equivalent Colin Chapman quotation?

I think it was something about washers. "Don't ever use a washer unless it is absolutely necessary"

 

[JohnW]

I think it was something about washers. "Don't ever use a washer unless it is absolutely necessary"

:roflmao:

 

[geckoeng]

Dynamat and Dynaliner !!!

Graeme and I had decided that the car needed to be very streetable as well as do a lot of club competition work. It therefore required sound deadening and heat insulation. I had used Dynamat and Dynaliner with great success in the past, and it would be part of the current project as well.

I did all the rear firewall and under the rear seat and parcel shelf, in the back. And all the front foot well and inner wheel arch panels, as far back as the flat floor goes under the front seats. The separator panel between engine and fuel tank was also done on the tank side.

I also did the entire inner roof with Dynerliner 6mm foam, even tucking about 10-15mm inside the side ribs. Also the “C” pillars inside were covered, prior to the roof lining going in.

The proof is in the Pudding as they say. The car is very comfortable to drive in on a hot day, and the lively exhaust is not intrusive within the car.

 

[geckoeng]

A funny little story related to the Gordini rebuild.

Taking the Gordini body to Naval Base industrial site to have the car media blasted, I am driving down Rockingham Rd in the Rodeo, and I notice this Land Cruiser about 5 cars back desperately trying to get through the 2 lanes of traffic in our direction. And I say to myself “that guy is acting funny”, why not just ride with the traffic till it thins. Well I get to my turning and go left, and a few seconds later the Cruiser turns in behind me. I have another left turn, and a few seconds the Cruiser turns in behind me, much closer this time. What the Hell, no coincidence!!

I get to the place I want to be and pull over and park on the pavement and the Cruiser parks just behind me. I get out and (I am told ) that I was quite abrupt and aggressive. But this young man introduced himself as Julian (julians) and said he had a Gordini in Zimbabwe, which he was in the process of bringing to WA. And with an introduction like that who can be aggressive ???

Julian’s Gordini has arrived and we have done some work on it to get it running properly and so we can register it as a club car for the moment. Julian's g outside my workshop, notice the ominous Cruiser in the background !!!!

View attachment 81430

After a bit of contacting people all over the world, and asking the right questions. It turns out that Julian's R8 Gordini was once raced by Scamp Porter himself. It is not sure if it belonged to him or Renault South Africa, or both, but it was sold to a Rhodesian racer, and then did the rounds of quite a few owners. Eventually being bought by Julian and his Dad. Julian then started to rebuild it and it remained in his hands since buying it. Now an Australian car.

So it has quite a rich African racing history. I remember the car when a number of us young racers took a number of cars from Salisbury to Beira in Mozanbique for a round the houses racing weekend. That sure brings back very good memories. Even a few South Africans came to that event.

Ray

 

[geckoeng]

The Mechanical Build

Over the period of working on the project parts above, I was also into other parts of the car that were in boxes on the project racking. Stuff would be cleaned and then a decision made as to paint or plate. Any paint parts would normally be sent for blasting first, and then returned for etch priming and then a liberal coat of Acrylic. A lot of parts like shocks were cleaned and sanded and sprayed. I also like Zink Passivating, most in silver, but where the parts need to stand out, in gold. The calliper carriers had the backing plates removed and were sent for gold passivate , and now on the car look just great.

As we all know the standard rack mounts are not secure enough for spirited driving, so I make up a support frame that incorporates the bracing tube that fits between the front spring towers. This has always worked on the rally cars built in ZA, and I have continued the style on my road cars.

All the copper brake lines are retained. I cut one end off of the line and strip it completely, and straighten as best possible. They normally lie quite straight when I am finished. They are cleaned completely on the outside after the old rubber protection is removed. And sanded with turpentine and 400 grit. They are wiped off and then flushed with methylated spirit. I then re-sleeve then with Butyl rubber hose similar size as what was on them, and then re swage the tube for a brake fitting. The copper fuel lines were treated the same, but covered in clear plastic.

I find this is the stage to fit the new electrical loom. It was made for a LHD car, so where it came down the LH “A” pillar it had to be extended across the dash to the RH position. It was also the time I added all the extras we needed. The front was simple, as I just redirected the front wires across the dash as well as extended, and put them out the appropriate hole into the front compartment. They all ended at the battery box on the LH boot area, where I then put all the lights and hooter and air horn on relays. Takes all the load off of the old switches and gives good bright lights.

This is also the stage to fit and lay all the bits under the floor, and try to make it neater than what the factory did it. I do not use the old holding clamps under the floor. I make new tabs with holes in them, bolt them in the clamp positions, and cable tie all the lines and cables in place. Much neater and simpler.

 

[geckoeng]

Mechanical Build Pictures :

 

[geckoeng]

Mechanical Build Cont.

It had come to the point of fitting the front suspension. The roller frame was removed, and all the rebuilt suspension was fitted. By the end of the day the car was on its front wheels on the floor. A decent milestone.

The next day was assemble all the gearbox and back suspension. And then assemble with the motor.

Fit the fuel tank and cover panel, and it was ready to get the motor into the body. A fresh morning and the rear roller frame was removed and the waiting motor and gearbox was installed and all the connecting done. It takes quite a good bit of time to connect all the bits from the car to the motor/gearbox unit once you have it bolted in the car. It was left on axle stands during this process, and only after 3 days of finishing work, were the wheels fitted and it was on all 4 feet.

I wanted to run the motor before I went any further with assembly. And I got out my test water system, so the radiator is not needed during testing.

 

[geckoeng]

Adding The Megajolt Ignition !!!

Adding the Megajolt ignition was a new one for me. I had worked with the electronic ignition on the late R5 Mk1 (1400cc) in ZA, and my Mk2 R5 in the UK. And found them very good and stable. But they are pre-programmed and you are not able to adjust to suit the motor characteristics. The Megajolt system comes with a small sideline computer that reads the trigger wheel and throttle position and interpolates these and sends a signal to the EDIS module to fire the coils. And you are able to go into the computer and adjust the advance curve to suit the motor characteristics.

The first thing was to get the trigger wheel mounted to the timing pulley in a way that was accessible for a sensor to read the position of TDC and the speed of rotation. I also needed to make a bracket to mount the throttle position sensor on the butterfly shaft of the Webers. The EDIS module and coil pack went on the bulkhead to the cabin and the computer was mounted on the other side of the bulkhead, inside the back parcel shelf.

The loom to connect all the needed sensors and components was made with the power source being the coil power for the original ignition. The circuits that come off the website are very simple and are easily followed.

When it was fired up I was amazed at how responsive it was, and on the first road test it was obvious the huge step it took over a well prepared distributor. With a bit of fine tuning on the base program in the computer, and a bit of help from some advance curves given by Frans, I have been able to pick the best parts and have a very responsive car that works very well, for an "Old Gordini"

 

[geckoeng]

Getting Working Fuel Gauges !!!

As our rear engined Renaults get older, we are finding it more difficult to replace parts that are just worn out. I know some are real sticklers for Original. I am not I believe in functional. In building Graeme Robson’s R8 Gordini, we have believed in Functional. So instead of searching for original parts we have gone with new off the shelf.

People who worked on the car before had found the fuel gauge system was faulty (worn or broken). So they attempted to fix the gauge and the senders, in particular the front sender. Well on the first run after rebuild, I found the gauges were working intermittently. Not good enough on a costly rebuilt car. So I went to VDO and bought replacements. Also realising there would be work involved to fit them in the tanks, and make them look as if they belonged.

The most difficult first. The front tank was emptied and removed. Washed with water, and when on the work bench filled with water, till just about 5mm under the mount flange for the gauge. This allows me to grind and file and not have the tank “bark” at me and send me into orbit. I had to alter the shape of the sender hole, so the new sender could be passed through, into the tank. So a tungsten tip on my high speed small drill allowed me to re-profile the hole and a small rectangular file to square off the profile where needed.

Now with the front tank I only had 115mm of height to get the sender/float to work in. I found that by turning the sender head up side down I could get the pivot point in the right position. Unfortunately the floats they supply are too large in diameter to go through the sender hole, so I used the old cork float supported by part of the ball float.

It also became obvious that it would be impossible to fit the sender unit into the tank with the float mounted. So a method of assembly was devised in the half way position. The VDO mounting flange was also too large to sit in the recess of the top of the tank, and it was decided to use the original threaded mount points of the Renault sender, and trim the VDO flange back to suite. I also needed to solder a new fuel pickup into the tank as the front sender is also the fuel pickup.

The sender unit was tested with the gauge, and the final adjustments for empty and full were set. And the unit was assembled into the tank with a new neoprene gasket. And the tank put in the car, and finish assembled.

I then made plans for the rear tank conversion, and I started with the mods on the sender unit. The end of the first days work. I put fuel in the front tank, started the car up and parked it so I could close up for the night.

The next day started early and in a definite direction, as I knew what was needed. This one though all had to be done through the small access hole on the back parcel shelf. Having done a full job on the front tank, I knew exactly what was needed on the rear. By lunch all the parts were made and ready to install. Then I found that the flange would not clamp properly and decided to make a new flange with 6 screws and a threaded clamp ring to go inside the tank. This was the direction to go, so I made 2 off and would change the front one as well.

Late in the evening both senders were in their respective tanks, all connected, and all working, a bit of a chore. But would work well in racing conditions.

 

[geckoeng]

First Problem with the Rebuild

I have a water recirculation system to connect to the motor so I can run it without the radiator. I had connected everything up, motor was primed and ready. I had a remote switch to switch ignition on and off, and work the starter. Ignition on, press start button. With a few attempts and working with the throttle it fired and ran. Oil pressure up and it sounded very good. But as it warmed up, I got bubbles in the water, and they got bigger as it got warmer, and I started with a water leak from the head to block joint just under the exhaust manifold.

Turn it off, and inspect the situation. It was obvious the annealed copper head gasket was not working. OHhh well, back to the drawing board. Drain motor, head off. Sure enough there you could see it where the copper had not crimped enough to seal the liner. But it also showed another problem, number 4 pot had a wave feature around the seal face. Motor out and stripped on the table again. A lot of measuring done.

It turned out, the copper head gasket was having trouble with the protruding liners. But, when I did more intense measuring of the number 4, it turned out to be an odd liner to the other three, and one side had collapsed 0.07mm on the one side. A rubbish rebuild at one time to get the motor running, no matter what.

Now the old problem came back. I needed 2.5mm to make 10.5:1 C/R
And I needed 4 new liners. After a bit of email discussion with Jean-Yves at Autobleu, he found me a 1.6mm(final size) head gasket, and got me 4 new liners, and a 0.5mm copper shim gasket. I now had to remove enough material out of the combustion chamber to account for 0.4mm of missing head gasket. By the time the parts arrived from Belgium the head was ready to go back together, and the motor re-assembled.

We start over again. Motor in and all connected, and the test water system back on, and press the button to start. First time and it fired, and ran real sweet. AAaahhh!!! That sound, just fantastic. Got it nice and hot, no bubbles, no leaks. What a lot of work to get to a satisfactory point. Switched off, re-torqued the head and reset the valves. Finished off the motor installation.



Ray

 

[geckoeng]

I felt this should be put in with the rebuild story !!! From 20th Dec 2015.

Do Not Try To Dodge The Bullet !!!!

Renault Sierra motors Owners,​

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If you are using the "crank handle drive nut" get rid of them, unless they are absolutely new.​

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Graeme was driving the Gordini home from the French car show in Perth, and approaching the red traffic lights eased off the pedal and coasted to a halt. Just a few seconds before he stopped the motor cut. He thought it had stalled, but would not start. He had the RAC tilt tray him home. I was away in the North on holiday, as was due back during the week, so he sent me a text.​

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When I got back we organised to get the car to the workshop and see what was wrong. Well after some investigation it was found the distributor was not turning, and nor was the camshaft. Jack it up get the sump and timing cover off, and then all was revealed.​

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There was no crank pulley bolt. The pulley had moved back on the crank and the un-held crank sprocket spat the drive key out. Here is how close we came to rebuilding the motor. But valves had not touched the pistons as the compressions were 168 t0 178psi. So very lucky.​

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On further investigation it seems the crank bolt had broken and left the thread stub in the crank. Been tightened too many times, and sometimes by a Gorilla. It now has a new 10.2 grade bolt holding it all together.​

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Take care what you use in your old motors when you rebuild them !!!!!​

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Ray​

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[R8 Dream]

Pulley Failure

I recall a similar story with Moffat in the late 70’s. After his transporter caught fire at Adelaide Raceway and destroyed his XB Falcon, he had to build a new one. He salvaged some parts from his burnt car to use on the new one, including a pulley.
I think he was 70 laps and in the lead at Bathurst and the pulley let go, and he subsequently cooked the engine and of course had to retire from the race. It turns out the heat of the fire effected the metallurgy of the pulley and made it brittle this prematurely cracked under stress under race conditions.
I recall his lament at what was a $10 part which potentially cost him the race and an expensive engine rebuild.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Angelo