GiSelle the GS Mechanical Refresh Mark 2

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
Well today has had its ups and downs.

First thing I tried was dressing the small bearing splitter so it was a snug fit behind the sealing collar, then clamping it up in the vise so it would stay perpendicular to the face, if that makes sense.

Applied some pull, then applied lots of heat from a a small propane torch. (Still holding back on the oxy!) Thought I'd got somewhere as things started to move, then realise the "lips" of the bearing splitter had simply spread over the face of the collar and were sliding up it! Bugger.

So, moving on, I figured I'd extract the garden ornament from its home and see about the early output flanges. Sure enough, they came off easily and, yes, they're the threaded type. Whoopee! Easily dismantled and cleaned. Whoopee again.

That was the good news. I knew it wouldn't last.

Subsequent investigation revealed the bad news.

The early units are 26mm shaft diameter, as opposed to the 25mm of the later ones. And as if that wasn't enough, the oil seal used is a 26 x 42 x 7, as opposed to the later one's 34x52x7.5. The side plates are a different casting for the early seals, hence 42 rather than 52.

Bearings for the early shafts (SKF 441376B or NTN 6205/26 V16) are, of course, hard to source, unlike the later ones (6205 2RS) which are on every street corner almost.

A call to my local bearings and seals bloke has him on the hunt for me. Impressed that he was able to quote Citroen parts numbers as well!

Onwards and upwards, but sometimes sideways as well.

We shall see what we shall see. Pottsy
 

Attachments

  • Yeah theres some force there.jpg
    Yeah theres some force there.jpg
    135 KB · Views: 43
  • Garden ornament.jpg
    Garden ornament.jpg
    127.6 KB · Views: 41
  • Threaded early flanges.jpg
    Threaded early flanges.jpg
    84.1 KB · Views: 42

simca1100

Active member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
547
Location
Lavers Hill
A GS engine and gearbox as a garden ornament - now that's my sort of garden.
Maybe if you bury the engine/gearbox in a sunny part of the garden, apply a variety of merdes every few months, water with dilute LHM, fertilize regularly with blood, sweat and tears, you could grow a whole new GS??
Good luck with it, Pottsy.
 

faulksy

Active member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
661
Location
melbourne
I wonder if your bearing guy could hunt up the front bearings. I was wading through parts books this morning and it turns out that they are virtually identical to the ones used on DS gearboxes.
 

faulksy

Active member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
661
Location
melbourne
I was thinking of the gearbox front bearings, the big 25x62x67x25.5 and 30x72x78.6x30.2 jobbies
 

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
Success (of sorts).

By relatively careful and selective application of the mechanical tinker's friend, the 1mm cutting disc on the spinny thing, I've managed to dissect and remove the dead bearings from a pair of these RBs.

Once the bearing was out of the way the bearing puller was able to have a red hot go at the seal rings and remove them. Man, they were &^%#*(&(ing tight! It was little wonder I couldn't budge the combination of ring and bearing together. It took most of the pulling force I could muster to shift the ring alone!

So now I have a couple of options. As long as the sealing rings clean up OK I can refit a pair of the late output shafts with the new bearings I already have and the new seals which are on their way. That's certainly plan A at present.

Another possibility is to use the early shafts with a pair of new bearings (also on their way) and try to source oil seals of dimension 31 x 52 x 14 or so. This would enable me to use the early shafts in my late gearbox housing. Call this plan B.

Another alternative, but one which requires some precision lathing, which is not my forte by any means, is to machine the centres of the late sealing rings 25mm ID to 26mm ID so suit the early shaft. Call this a distant plan C. A corollary to this one would be to create new sealing rings with 26mmID and 34mm OD from scratch. (See above comment about my machining skills!) (Plan D)

Once more we triumph over the powers of darkness!

Cheers, Pottsy
 

Attachments

  • setup for cutting.jpg
    setup for cutting.jpg
    110.4 KB · Views: 33
  • bearing gone ready to pull.jpg
    bearing gone ready to pull.jpg
    81.8 KB · Views: 34
  • phew.jpg
    phew.jpg
    70.8 KB · Views: 34

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
A GS engine and gearbox as a garden ornament - now that's my sort of garden.
Maybe if you bury the engine/gearbox in a sunny part of the garden, apply a variety of merdes every few months, water with dilute LHM, fertilize regularly with blood, sweat and tears, you could grow a whole new GS??
Good luck with it, Pottsy.
Maybe I should attach a fishing rod and a pipe to it, just to add verisimilitude. (And no shortage of merdes around here! :) )

And if one did grow, I bet it would be smoky! :)
 

wheelnut

Member
Fellow Frogger
Tadpole
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
158
Location
Central Coast NSW
Success (of sorts).

By relatively careful and selective application of the mechanical tinker's friend, the 1mm cutting disc on the spinny thing, I've managed to dissect and remove the dead bearings from a pair of these RBs.

Once the bearing was out of the way the bearing puller was able to have a red hot go at the seal rings and remove them. Man, they were &^%#*(&(ing tight! It was little wonder I couldn't budge the combination of ring and bearing together. It took most of the pulling force I could muster to shift the ring alone!


Once more we triumph over the powers of darkness!

Cheers, Pottsy
Great lateral thinking Pottsy. That must have been tricky cutting to avoid damaging the shaft.
 

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
I may have nicked the shaft in a couple of places. :( I suspect not too badly. Investigation is ongoing when I get to it.

Got four grandies here today (legal reasons, parents essential working, uni exams etc.) two of them home schooling and two under 4! Chaos Reigns!

Got another pair of output assemblies to perfect my method on yet!

Cheers.
 

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
OK, it's time for an update. I know you've all been hanging out to know what I've been up to! :)

After creating a drawing of the oil seal rings I was able to prevail upon a Good Mate whose skills with his lathe are way more gooder than mine, not to mention his lathe is relatively new, while my old Zyto is almost as old as I am!

So armed with two new seal rings, and the two new bearings ((6205 2RS) that I already had, I proceeded to reassemble the output shafts.

I was also able to source some new oil seals (34 x 52 x 7.5) and these are now fitted to the gearbox casing and eagerly awaiting their juxtaposition with the refurbished drive flange assemblies.

Today has seen a careful peruse of the Good Book (Manual 810 Volume 2) and a meticulous reassembly of the gearbox. Loctite anaerobic sealant wherever two faces meet as one (Oo! er! Matron!) and careful attention to getting all the right interlocks in the right spots.

Box is now assembled, sealed, torqued up and awaiting the clutch housing (coffee break intervened!) Once that's added on I guess it's time to reintroduce the whirly bit to the twirly bit ready for reinsertion in the rolly up and down bit.

This will take place after I get stuck in to the de-greasing and re-hosing of the under bonnet area.

Covid's a bugger, but at least I don't feel like I should be out there driving my toys instead of spending all this time on GiSelle.

Cheers for now. Pottsy.
 

Attachments

  • Finished drive flange.jpg
    Finished drive flange.jpg
    95.5 KB · Views: 28
  • Oil seal ring Citroen GS late.pdf
    114.3 KB · Views: 22

PeterMol

Active member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
357
Location
Ashburton
Fantastic pottsy. Your a great example of enthusiasm and ingenuity rolled up together with perseverance. Who Else could get all this done in lockdown. I thought my effort today of cranking the 1911 Renault into life (3 hours) was good form!
 

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
Thanks for the kind words, but I think of myself as an normal Citroen Loonie.

Hmm. 3 hours of cranking by hand would have been a powerful incentive for the invention of the electric self starter way back when!
 

Buttercup

D Stracted
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
3,125
Location
Lake Keepit NSW
Thanks for the report and pics.....
I like looking at the stuff in the background of such pics.
I see a similar 2 axis slide vise.
Same yellow lamp tripod, same 3/4" pipe sash clamp, your floor is a bit tidier than mine.
 

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
Chris, the October is simply because I don't reckon it'll go back in the car until then.
(I lie, actually I meant to write August but had a brain fade!! :) )

And for those who like to peruse a pic of an untidy shed, here ya go. The works in progress are the GS refurbish and a stove hot little Mini engine (the red one), amongst other things of course.

The floor is more untidy than usual as I'm also in the process of re-sorting shelves and chucking out some old boxes. (And the XXXX is either in the belly or the fridge, doesn't stay in the box for long!)

The Toys are all outside for now, but under cover.

Cheers, Pottsy.
 

Attachments

  • The Shed.jpg
    The Shed.jpg
    125.9 KB · Views: 45

Buttercup

D Stracted
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
3,125
Location
Lake Keepit NSW
I dare not put up a pic of my shed.
I'm part way through a thorough tidy up after 35 years of mayhem.
Not much (that means none) of the concrete floor is visible.

Pottsy, yours is "a place for everything, and everything in its place" by comparison.
Mine is "a place for some things, and nothing in its place"
I might be able to put up pics of small selected parts of it.
 

pottsy

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Messages
1,393
Location
Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
Back to the task in hand.

The calipers have now been cleaned and reassembled with new seals.

They're back on the gearbox with the mounting bolts loc-tited and torqued. The parking brake pads (new) have been adjusted in situ to 4 thou clearance. I really hope I've got this right because I reckon doing the adjustments in the car will be a real bugger!

This afternoon saw me, and the carport, and the hoist, and the garden, and passing birds, get greasy and wet. Lots of degreaser and the pressure washer wound up to eleven! The engine bay is certainly cleaner than it was, and I reckon the car will go a bit faster with all that scunge removed from all the little crevices in the subframe.

And now a question for the Brains Trust.

I've yet to reunite the engine and gearbox and it occurred to me that it may be more wieldy for me to re-instal the gearbox first and then offer up the engine afterwards.

Any thoughts?

Anyway, here re a couple more progress pics.

Cheers, Pottsy
 

Attachments

  • engine bay looking cleaner.jpg
    engine bay looking cleaner.jpg
    107.6 KB · Views: 30
  • Ready to return.jpg
    Ready to return.jpg
    115.5 KB · Views: 30
Top