Fuego with Lotus engine

Jack Daniel

Jack Daniel

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
May 5, 2004
Messages
102
Location
Perth
Has anyone ever thought or heard of a lotus twin cam (from late model Excel SE or atmo Esprit) being fitted to a Fuego?

Seems logical to me.

:dance: Atmo carb engine, with 180hp (135kW ish) that loves to rev.

:clown: Excel and Esprit have the same basic engine engine.

:confused: Esprit runs a R25 gearbox, so bell housing/adapter and clutch must exist. IF the R25 gb & Fuego gb are basically the same, only adapter/belhousing & clutch needed.

:confused: R25 gearbox fits in a Fuego (not 100% confident about this, but it's been mentioned in the Forum somewhere)

:question: The Lotus Europa R16TS fittment and later change to Lotus twin cam, might also offer some insights.

My only issue would be as the Lotus engine is of a "slant" design, the engine might not fit. I've had a close look at photos of both engine bays and the clearances look adequate, BUT :confused:

If it would work, just imagine how an Esprit Turbo engine would go in a Fuego :dance:

Its just a consideration at this time, but I would be interested in anyones thoughts.

Shane
 
Lotus Engine in a Fuego

I agree, on the surface. :joker:

However;
1.My wife is Frog/Pom cross,
2.Has an uncle in the UK who is a mechanic specialising in up market cars,
3.Who just happens to have an engine from an 89 Lotus Excel SE sitting around, that I can HAVE:headbang:
4.All I pay is shipping.

Makes it sound a whole lot better doesnt it.

I'm also seeing if he can can get a 21 Turbo engine as well. 21 will be MUCH easier, but the Lotus Fuego will be a lot more fun and the only one. Still only a paper plan at this time though.

Shane
 
I would love a R21 T motor and associated bits - go you halves on the shiping!! Talk to guys at renault21turbo.com - some of those guys have shedloads of bits lying about and a few hundered bucks would get you all you need!
Get a 21T gearbox to with it (UN1) ;)
 
Sounds like quite an engineering feat, not sure at the end of day what you are getting out of it though.

I'd say stick with the R21Turbo idea.

As the esprit is mid mounted you may find ancilleries (ie. water pump/alternator) will be mounted on the rear of the motor (ie nearest the firewall)

I'd be surprised if there'd be a front pulley on it, as it would be hard up against the Esprit firewall in that configuration.
 
Hi Europa,

The Esprit does have pulleys on the front of the engine (how you get to them is mystery!:confused: ). A friend has just bought an Esprit Turbo, so I have become quite familiar with mechanical bits. I will never, ever complain about access in a Citroën again :whip: .

Then again when the Turbo cuts in it is remarkably like engaging warp drive in Star Trek!:roflmao: :roflmao: . I have rarely enjoyed myself so much with my clothes on!

Seriously - parts are VERY expensive for these engines - an engine rebuild is quoted at $12-15000 for a Turbo, so probably not much less for a non-turbo. Access to ancillaries in the Esprit is appalling - the distributor is a real horror to get to. I'd say go for the Fuego Turbo - a much simpler unit.


Paul
 
Jack Daniel said:
I agree, on the surface. :joker:

However;
1.My wife is Frog/Pom cross,
2.Has an uncle in the UK who is a mechanic specialising in up market cars,
3.Who just happens to have an engine from an 89 Lotus Excel SE sitting around, that I can HAVE:headbang:
4.All I pay is shipping.

Makes it sound a whole lot better doesnt it.

I'm also seeing if he can can get a 21 Turbo engine as well. 21 will be MUCH easier, but the Lotus Fuego will be a lot more fun and the only one. Still only a paper plan at this time though.

Shane
Click to expand...

Hey Shane! Any chance of your wife's uncle sending me a Renault Spider?
It needs to be in yellow though! :dance:
 
Paul Smith said:
I'd say go for the Fuego Turbo - a much simpler unit.
Paul
Click to expand...

Nah,

from what I've read the fuego turbo is only a 1.4litre, and certainly no faster than the 2litre (only no torque off boost, and it'd be a b@stard of a thing to drive). I just wonder why they bothered :confused: :confused:

Just work the motor that's there, that'd be the way to go :dance: :dance:

seeya,
Shane L.
 
DoubleChevron said:
Nah,

from what I've read the fuego turbo is only a 1.4litre, and certainly no faster than the 2litre (only no torque off boost, and it'd be a b@stard of a thing to drive). I just wonder why they bothered :confused: :confused:

Just work the motor that's there, that'd be the way to go :dance: :dance:

seeya,
Shane L.
Click to expand...

The Fuego turbo is indeed a 1.6 litre OHV unit, basically the same as an R16 TS.
The motor we are talking about is the R21 Turbo, which is the same OHC Douvrin unit you have been working on today, but with EFI and a dirty great big Garret T3 strapped to the side - good for 185 bhp in factory trim and with a chip and upped boost 250 is easily made :dance:

Would love one in the R25 - would give it the power it deserves to make it the nice relaxed tourer it should be. I've heard the V6 is a bit nose heavy.
Mind you, this looks nice (and close - anyone know anyone emigrating to Oz from NZ?)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Renault/0001-0268-0325-/auction-11218958.htm
 
from what I've read the fuego turbo is only a 1.4litre
Click to expand...

It was 1.6 based on a R18 motor i'm pretty sure. And it's got a turbo so prob cheaper/horspower (Boost, Intercooler etc) than trying to get equivalant power out of a standard feugo 2 litre (except fo r the initial cost of the standard motor).

Just turn the feugo into a mid mounted rear whel drive beast if youve already got a lotus twincam turbo motor!!!!!! :tongue: just expect to very poor for awhile!!

Jensen
 
I'd guess that the Esprit motor would weigh more than the Fuego motor, so it may make it into a bit of an understeerer, as well as having the usual Lotus problems of hassles and expensive parts.

If re-engineering is your bag, why not an RS Clio motor? The slant appears similar, just the hassles of re-engineering mounts and a bellhousing to match.

The RS Clio motor puts out 172kW compared to 175kW (leaded) or 162kW (unleaded) in the 21T. Torque is no contest, the 21T 270Nm @ 3000, RSC 200 @ 5400. But the RS has the advantage of being available in AUS, no hairdryer hassles associated with unknown old motors, and the RS has the advantage of being a newer motor which may be more tunable than the 21T as mods become available in AUS.

One other thing that could be checked, what size are the stub axles on an RSC, the same as a Fuego? Just wondering if there is any chance that the rear discs may be adaptable?

It sounds like an interesting project for a sleeper, but as the Fuego weighs just a touch more at 1060kg's compared to 1035kg's of the RSC, it could all just be academic. It may be better saving money and buying an RSC instead of having just a fast re-engineered Fuego.
 
Jack Daniel said:
Has anyone ever thought or heard of a lotus twin cam (from late model Excel SE or atmo Esprit) being fitted to a Fuego?

[...]

Shane
Click to expand...

I have a friend who used to have an older Lotus. He often quoted the
old, well-worn, but oh-so-often-true phrase:

(L)ots (O)f (T)rouble, (U)sually (S)erious

He no longer has it, but he does still have a wacking big hole in his
wallet to remind himself that he was once a Lotus owner :)

R21 Turbo sounds good to me...

Mike
 
Bit more thought = R21Turbo

Bit more thought = R21Turbo.
It will be just as quick, much easier to fit and get registered.
Still thinking though.

Shane :mallet:
 
I've personally wondered why no-one out here has bothered to supercharge a Fuego.

We have a torqey low compression bullet proof 2litre motor. Adequate cooling and gearbox/driveshafts with almost adequate strength.

If you were to get a blower from the jap importers (I don't think there expensive), using a car without PS put the blower when the PS pump usually is. You probably wouldn't need any ignition/mixture setting changes (after all, most fuegos I've ever seen run themselves way to rich anyway). You'd probably only run 5-8psi depending on what you find the motors happy to run, and you can always turn the supercharger off if you have any problems ...

I can only see simplicity and ease for moderate power gains, especially at low revs.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
DoubleChevron said:
I've personally wondered why no-one out here has bothered to supercharge a Fuego.

We have a torqey low compression bullet proof 2litre motor. Adequate cooling and gearbox/driveshafts with almost adequate strength.

If you were to get a blower from the jap importers (I don't think there expensive), using a car without PS put the blower when the PS pump usually is. You probably wouldn't need any ignition/mixture setting changes (after all, most fuegos I've ever seen run themselves way to rich anyway). You'd probably only run 5-8psi depending on what you find the motors happy to run, and you can always turn the supercharger off if you have any problems ...

I can only see simplicity and ease for moderate power gains, especially at low revs.

seeya,
Shane L.
Click to expand...

The thought has occured me many times with regard to the R25. If I run a low boost, just enough to give it enough grunt, I probably wont even have to stuff with the EFI system - maybe just some higher flow injectors. Strap it onto the AC compressor and use its PV4 belt to drive it - too easy :D
 
DoubleChevron said:
I've personally wondered why no-one out here has bothered to supercharge a Fuego.
Click to expand...


I personally wonder why more cars arent supercharged! Should be more of it, its a sensible way to get some extra power, doesnt make stupid blow off "mmmmmmCH" sounds and is much nicer to your driveline than a turbo. Plus they sound sexy, and everywhere you go, you get blown.

what more could you ask??

Superchargers for all i say!! :headbang:
 
mi16_weapon said:
I personally wonder why more cars arent supercharged! Should be more of it, its a sensible way to get some extra power, doesnt make stupid blow off "mmmmmmCH" sounds and is much nicer to your driveline than a turbo. Plus they sound sexy, and everywhere you go, you get blown.

what more could you ask??

Superchargers for all i say!! :headbang:
Click to expand...

The main reason is efficiency.

With a Super charger, you are driving a pulley ALL the time. This means that to make an additional 20% HP you actually may need to produce 25% more HP to overcome the drag from the Supercharger. This means bad economy....

A Turbo Charger on the other hand draws far less power. The exhaust gasses are trying to expand through the exhaust anyway, the Turbo just utilises this otherwise unused energy (and makes the exhaust quieter to boot)

The stupid blow off "mmmmmmCH" sounds, are an owner added option. They are tossing themselves if they think it makes an ounce of difference by dumping to atmosphere.....

Most factory turbo cars these day have a BOV, they vent back into the intake before the compressor wheel to keep things spinning between gear changes...this also aids efficiency...

As for the driveline, I disagree.

With a Turbo setup, it will usually take a few thousand RPM to really hit it's straps.

With a Super charger, that huge torque is available from low down. This does NOT do wonders for clutches, gearboxes or driveshafts. This is one of the main reasons Ford went with the Turbo charger option on it's BA. The driveline couldn't handle the torque off the line that was being produced by the supercharged engine, yet it's peak power and torque were the same as the turbo donk (the turbo hits max torque at about 1800 rpm I think)

Having driven the XR6T I must admit, I think they made the right choice...
The thing is a bloody weapon in a straight line and doesn't use much more juice than a standard BA 6
 
mistareno said:
The thing is a bloody weapon in a straight line
Click to expand...

a very accurate description - they let P platers loose in these things and wonder why the silly bastards keep killing themselves....
 
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