Fuego Towbar, Gear knob insert, suspension?

The Gonz

The Gonz

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Fellow Frogger
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My '85 Fuego might improve with the following:

1. Whatever goes on the top of the leather gear knob,

2. Stiffer suspension (=less body roll?),

3. A suitable towbar (to allow the ex-Commodore bike carrier to bolt onto where the towball goes).

Any tips, hints, suggestions, opinions welcome!
:rolleyes:
 
what ever you do, dont go firmer with the springs, as you will actually get MORE body roll (the anti-roll bars cant hold the springs) Have you checked the sway bar links/bushes? If they are allright, try fitting a thicker rear sway bar. If your car is running on standard tyres, then this is the main culprit. My fuego runs 205/45 R16's and it has virtually no roll and has mind a boggling degree of grip. BEWARE!! if you go much stiffer with the rear sway bar the fuego will bite you if you go in to a corner to hot.....i.e: Look Ma, there goes the apex.......in the rear view mirror.....
The ain problem with the fuego is the tyres (if standard are based on 20 year old technology that wasn't even really convincing in its day.
 
Caravelle imports were able to supply a genuine replacement gearknob for my Mum's Fuego (on hers, the leather bit came off)

We might still have the old one if all you need is the shift pattern badge...
 
Shift pattern badge - nicely put. Thanks, Europa, and yes, I'd like it. Can we come to an arrangement?

As for the body roll, I'm running 14" Camira mags with some very common tyres (Bridgestones, I think) with a modest profile, nothing I wouldn't have bought on special for the Commodore.
blush
 
quote:
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Originally posted by mistareno:
what ever you do, dont go firmer with the springs, as you will actually get MORE body roll (the anti-roll bars cant hold the springs).....
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quote:
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Actually, this is incorrect...

They don't hold the springs, only the body...

I probably worded it a bit simplisticly as when the car is not cornering the sway bar preforms no function. What I mean is that if you only increase the spring rate, and dont increase the anti-roll size bar to match, then as the car rolls going in to a corner, the sway bar (which links the left and right suspension) can't pull the other side down. The sway bar works by resisting twisting (torsional)force, the thicker the bar the more it will resist a twisting force.

EG: Each end is connected to an opposite wish bones for example as you turn left , the right side suspension compresses, whilst the left hand suspension extends (as the spring tries to expand). All the anti roll bar is effectivley trying to do is keep both suspensions on the same level. If you increase the spring rate, without increasing anti-roll bar size then you will have less compression on the loaded side but more extension on the unloaded side (stronger spring remember). If you run original(lighter rate) springs, with stiffer anti-roll bars bars then the unloaded side will be held at a more even level to the loaded side (even though it has more compression on the loaded side than a firmer spring would have). This way, the car still rides reasonalbly well (as it maintains the original spring rate) but will corner flatter and not be upset by mid-corner bumps.

NB I am sure if you went hard enough with the springs you might overcome the above situation, but the front wish bones would probably snap of...not to mention your back if you hit a pot hole....
 
mistareno:
.....If you run original(lighter rate) springs, with stiffer anti-roll bars bars then the unloaded side will be held at a more even level to the loaded side (even though it has more compression on the loaded side than a firmer spring would have). This way, the car still rides reasonalbly well (as it maintains the original spring rate) but will corner flatter and not be upset by mid-corner bumps.

NB I am sure if you went hard enough with the springs you might overcome the above situation, but the front wish bones would probably snap of...not to mention your back if you hit a pot hole....
Click to expand...
Nope... think about it and you'll recognise why.

And I do know a little about suspension...
 
Hi All

The components of the suspension ie: springs; shocks; sway bars and tyres and supsension settings all have to work together to give you maximum control of the car with a reasonable ride so changing one thing has a trade off somewhere else. So the supsension system has to work as a package. So before changing anything think about what you are trying to achieve and how much money you want to spend achieving your goals before starting.

regards COL.
 
mistareno:
do tell...
Click to expand...
I do, actually...

Was in the business over a period of several years, then I have been closely involved in motor racing for over thirty years, written about cars and racing for about that long too...

So I guess I must have picked up a thing or two.
 
mistareno:

NB I am sure if you went hard enough with the springs you might overcome the above situation, but the front wish bones would probably snap of...not to mention your back if you hit a pot hole....
Click to expand...
Ok, I went from a 26mm front bar to a 27mm front bar on my 504, which stiffened the front a bit, then I went and fitted stiffer front springs (85lbs/in as oppossed to 65lbs/in) and the bodyroll was reduced even more, so your theory doesn't hold up.

Personally I think the Feugo 2 litre GTX ride/handling compromise is great, they just need 14" wheels with decent tyres (15" ruins the ride due to the very low profile tyres needed -but maybe I'm a bit of a softy).

Dave

<small>[ 21 November 2002, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>
 
Dave, you have kind of misunderstood what I was trying to get at originally. Try this put the standard anti-rollbars back on the Pug with the new stiffer springs and tell me what happens.....it wil handle like ......well u know what :) . What I was trying to say in the original article, was if you replace JUST the srings and nothing else (on any car I have ever worked on) the car will handle and ride worse. Whereas, if you replace JUST the sway bars, the car will generally handle better and have little detriment to ride. I will be the first to admit that if you change springs, dampers, AND sway bars then yes you can make the car handle flatter and better (and no Ray, I'm not going to get into the old "I know more than you" argument by trying to say I have 40 years expierence on f1 cars or something" all I wil say is that I am competent and qualified in the field of automotive suspension design). But as Ray forgets to state is that when a car corners, it tries to roll, if you put firmer springs alone on the car, yes the loaded side will compress less, but what about the uloaded side? It now has a lot stronger spring trying to extend with the same size swaybar trying to keep it in check.... As for the Gonz ...I agree completely, I think all the Fuego requires is a decent set of wheels and tyres. Despite what people had told me, I have found the chassis tune fairly neutral (on a series 2 anyway, I don't know if a series 1 is exactly the same??) and quite throttle steerable. It does tend to roll-over steer when pushed hard but I have found that the onset of understeer (in the dry atleast) to be well contained and very controllable. I have found that going any harder with the front springs and anti-roll bars tends to make the car a bit skittish on the road over mid corner bumps and the ride deteriorated significantly (with no descirnable improvement inlateral Gs on a smooth track). Going firmer with the Rear bar and springs made the car less understeery (as one would expect) but it was quite easy to lose the rear, especially on trail braking. The car currently has standard springs/shock rates all round and a slightly stiffer rear bar..The car still rides like factory (apart from the slight lack of compliance from the 16 inch wheels...) and is just a little more throttle adjustable...a good compromise....now I wonder how many quotes you guys will get out of this one....... :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
mistareno:
What I was trying to say in the original article, was if you replace JUST the srings and nothing else (on any car I have ever worked on) the car will handle and ride worse. :)
Click to expand...
But if you rear my post carefully, this is exactly what I did in the second instance.

Also, I just fitted stiffer GTI springs to the front of my 505 STI without uprgrading the swaybar and it works fine. The STI usually has a 27mm front bar and normal 505 springs, whereas the GTI has the 27mm bar and stiffer front springs. So it's a little more complicated than just saying stiffer springs will always make it worse unless you fit a stiffer swaybar, because it doesn't take into account what combination of components it had before.

I agree, though, that fitting stiffer springs alone is generally a bad idea (atleast it is on the front), but it really all depends on just how well the original suspension was set up.

Dave

<small>[ 22 November 2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>
 
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