Finally ... Repairing a traction gearbox.

I agree new parts are always preferable! Are you going to get a new shaft for it to run on as well?
If you fit this bush to your gear you will have done the one job on a traction gearbox that I have never done! What a way to attain a little one-up-man-ship!
 
I agree new parts are always preferable! Are you going to get a new shaft for it to run on as well?
If you fit this bush to your gear you will have done the one job on a traction gearbox that I have never done! What a way to attain a little one-up-man-ship!

The shafts looks as new. I'm getting when the tooth went through the gearbox, it brake the reverse idler mounting in the case ... and cracked this bush!
 
Better make sure that the shaft is not bent at all. Sounds like it could have transmitted quite a bit of force.

Cheers Ken.
 
Better make sure that the shaft is not bent at all. Sounds like it could have transmitted quite a bit of force.

Cheers Ken.

The shaft would be enormously strong compared to the frail bit of alloy that held it in place :) I certainly will check though!
 
The shafts looks as new. I'm getting when the tooth went through the gearbox, it broke the reverse idler mounting in the case ... and cracked this bush!
Obviously there is not much wear in the bush as well. The damage must have been caused as you have reasoned! There is the added puzzle of the damage being at the opposite end from the broken lug in the casing!?!?!?
 
Time to wake this thread back up ..... What a couple of years its been!! I just noticed it may suddenly become very problematic to buy parts from overseas on July 1st.

Is anyone buying in some parts from Jose Franssen before July 1st ? CTA lists the bush I'm after as out of stock.

https://www.citroen-traction-avant....d._bush_with_flange_18x23x36_for_reverse_gear

The bush is only 11 Euro .... but the 44 euro ( $70aud) for postage is staggering :eek: If anyone else is going to order in some small parts, we could probably share the postage costs :)

Oh, obviously if anyone knows of a local stockist ... Yell out :D

seeya,
Shane L.
 
Time to wake this thread back up ..... What a couple of years its been!! I just noticed it may suddenly become very problematic to buy parts from overseas on July 1st.
Is anyone buying in some parts from Jose Franssen before July 1st ? CTA lists the bush I'm after as out of stock.
https://www.citroen-traction-avant....d._bush_with_flange_18x23x36_for_reverse_gear
The bush is only 11 Euro .... but the 44 euro ( $70aud) for postage is staggering :eek: If anyone else is going to order in some small parts, we could probably share the postage costs :)
Oh, obviously if anyone knows of a local stockist ... Yell out :D
seeya, Shane L.
Hi Shane :)
We might have helped but our parts are ordered and hopefully half way here. Hmm timing is everthing:(
Hard to know how the GST debacle will work out with suppliers like that. We would all probably have been happy with the post office collecting it, like some countries do, if it had to be done for Gerry Harvey to buy more racehorses :(
Jaahn
 
Well its only been two years .... and there is shit everywhere in bits (so all is normal).

20200614_155633.jpg


20200614_155551.jpg


There isn't much I can do with the ID19 until I chase up a puller and get the timing gear off the crankshaft so it can removed (and checked) and new bearings ordered if its ok.

but that is ok .... as this is what I've been working upto for the last couple of years.

20200614_154742.jpg
20200614_154757.jpg


Finally a area set aside to work on the traction where nothing should be dropped against it ... and I can leave the bits spread out over benches ... even if this takes me months. And look at that ... doors on the area that was supposed to be a paint booth (yeah some decade soon). I also fitted the reverse cycle A/C that was removed from the house into here. So hopefully I can get somewhere here (given ballarat is close to zero degrees outside of an evening for the entire winter ... this will be the biggest help).

Anyway, I layed out the bits again and figured I better go through this again.

20200614_154917.jpg


and spent an hour going over the crown wheel and pinion .... coming to a screaming halt. The pinion depth .... it supposed to be scribed here somewhere. It is a matched pair (the numbers matching on the crown and pinion).

20200614_154830.jpg


any ideas where they may have hidden the pinion depth ?
20200614_154900.jpg
 
I'm going to have to pull this diff apart too. There is witness marks all over the place from where metal has been circulating.

20200614_155219.jpg


See the black fragments there .... I scaped that out of the crown wheel with a small screwdriver. There is sure to be fine bits of metal through everything I need to somehow clean. So I'll need to dismantle the diff to clean as well. I probably should be replacing the crown and pinion just to be on the safe side (as the arrow above shows chipping to the tooth) ... but we'll push forward. 'Cos that isn't happening. That shouldn't be a wear area that transmits power there.
 
Why will it become problematic after July 1 ? I must have missed something.
Hi John :)
That date was for two years ago and was referring to our caring and sharing Government starting a GST tax on imported small items :rolleyes: It was anticipated it would cause many suppliers overseas to refuse to supply to us as it would cause hassels at postal services. However it has been no real problem and PalPay for example just adds in the 10% to the transaction now and it is seamless. AHHH the world runs on taxes o_O
Jaahn
Shane plays a looong game ! Good on him :cool:
 
Well I'm a genius, I was just reading this thread and found the article posted on the TA-L group and read through it.


and there in plain english:

To set the tangential or rotary play or backlash of the pinion to crown wheel to specification. The manual says that this setting is engraved on the crown wheel but this was not the case. In my case by asking the question on TA-L discussion group I was able to determine the specification to be between 0.19 and 0.23mm.

oh well, I'll see if I can pull the diff apart and clean it all tonight and start re-assembly. I'll need to buy in a dial gauge. Fortunately they also seem to be cheap these days.


seeya,
shane L.
 
Hi All,

I've been trying to check the diff and clean out any metal bits in there.

20200718_163303.jpg


Is there any special way to get the diff gear apart ... I don't want to munch the screw here first ....then ask :rolleyes: It is quite tight. I tried an impact driver on one and it didn't budge.

20200718_162938.jpg


The is some witness marks in the hardening on some of the teeth here too.

20200718_163241.jpg


I'm glad I pulled this apart. I thought it would be fine. But there has been metal through it by the looks of it.
 

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Yes, they often look like that! No good at all. It is the earlier version of diff. The later version has thrust pads in the centre of the sun gear. These contact a corresponding thrust pad on the centre block, and prevent the output shafts from being forced inwards by drive shaft shocks. This unwanted thrust against the gears causes the erosion you can see on the satellites. The best course of action is to replace the diff with a later unit, or to at least replace the internal components. The cheap way out is to fit the diff as is and put up with the rattling noises it will probably make. If you were to renew the CW and P then I would also see about buying new later type diff components. The three shafts, four satellites, two sun gears and shafts, and a new centre block would be needed. Then there would be the thrust washers behind the satellites and the celeron washers behind the sun gears to calculate and purchase in order to set the gear clearances as per the manual!
Cheers Gerry.
 
Yes, they often look like that! No good at all. It is the earlier version of diff. The later version has thrust pads in the centre of the sun gear. These contact a corresponding thrust pad on the centre block, and prevent the output shafts from being forced inwards by drive shaft shocks. This unwanted thrust against the gears causes the erosion you can see on the satellites. The best course of action is to replace the diff with a later unit, or to at least replace the internal components. The cheap way out is to fit the diff as is and put up with the rattling noises it will probably make. If you were to renew the CW and P then I would also see about buying new later type diff components. The three shafts, four satellites, two sun gears and shafts, and a new centre block would be needed. Then there would be the thrust washers behind the satellites and the celeron washers behind the sun gears to calculate and purchase in order to set the gear clearances as per the manual!
Cheers Gerry.

Perfect, thanks Gerry, I'm going to clean and re-assemble. I need to be realistic. The car will see next to no milage.... if its noisy and no good I'll chase up some spare gearboxes to pull down for parts (they do occasionally come up for sale). It would only be 1/2days work to swap diff over I'd say, so not a big job!.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
Thanks Gerry,

I'll have a look at it tonight again. I would never have tried to drive those pins out. How do I know which direction to drive them (it appears there is a slotted screwdriver fixing on one side). I need to get in there to clean the satellite gears and set the celeron washer behind them.

What stops them spinning out in normal use if they just drive out ?

Several of the teeth do have wear marks in the hardening, but I'm going to ignore this. If its an issue, I'll fix it down the track. So long as the gearbox is strong and sound (so nothing in it will break in normal use and destroy the rest) I'll be happy. This car has probably only done a handful of miles in the last 50years .... I'm guessing the next 50 will be similar!

seeya,
Shane L.
 
If you look hard at the diff housing you will see that there are pins that are pushed in along side each of the shafts on which the satellites run. You will be able to see both ends of each pin. They are tapered, so drive them out towards the side that the crown wheel mounts against. The pins have a flat on them that locks in against a corresponding flat section on the tapered shafts. Once they are removed you can then remove the shafts with a hammer and a drift with out a lot of effort. The system works like cotter pins on a bicycle pedal and crank!
The slot in the ends of the shafts are so that when you fit the shaft you can align the flat with the holes for the pins and then drive the pins in to completely lock the assembly.
Make sure that the pins do not protrude proud of the crown wheel face when refitting or the crown wheel will not run true!
Refer to the picture that you posted on Saturday 17th and the ends of the pins can be seen clearly next to the threaded holes for the crown wheel bolts!
 
You don't have to be blind ... but it helps. I spent an hour or so tonight just cleaning the diff satelites, shafts, etc.... I think this car has done a lot more miles than I previsously guessed (or at least the gearbox in it has). There is quite a lot of wear in the shafts the satelite gears run on. I'll post some piccies tomorrow. So now the fun starts ... putting all the bits back together :)
 
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