e10 fuel in a 1999 406 3 ltre coupe

128.9 for United E10/95 in Bendigo still, which is approved for my late model turbo (6 year/unlimited km warranty), and which is at least 29c less than the “cheap n nasty” supermarket fuel equivalent.
You CAN lead a horse to water BUT....twitter rules.


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It appears as though there is no e10 in WA, but our petrol can uave a maximum of 10% ethanol!!!!!
There is an e85 blend available in some places.
I do know that modders will often run a "flex fuel" system which detects the ethanol % and retunes the timing etc to compensate. I think it is actually somehow testing the ron number in fact rather than the kind of fuel, but I don't actually know. Check out the haltech ecu videos on youtube.
Many modern cars have knock sensors etc to work out what ron fuel is being run and adjust based on the sensors.
In that respect, any modern ecu controlled car should be able to adjust itself to some extent.
But as with biodiesel cleaning the system out and putting all that muck into the filter etc, apparently ethanol blends do the same (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread).
For mine, and I am not a smart guys so it is not expert advice, it depends on how smart your car is as to whether you will do long term damage, but you will likely end up with "dirty fuel" type problems for the first tank or three.
But I fit into the 20-30 car expert category, and it is not my car we are talking about, so I have nothing to lose......
 
I have no doubt after talking to these guys.
I had complete collapse of my valve seats using E10 and if you ring and ask these guys about it they will happily tell you about all the low mileage head jobs that happen from people using these fuels.

Pryce Race Engines

As I said earlier just ask any shop that deals with this every day, don't take the word of a shade tree mechanic who might only do a hundred or two in his life, listen to the blokes with the experience, or not. WTF would I care.
 
It seems my C4P has a fault because over the last 11,000 + kms the shown consumption figure, confirmed by fill to fill measurements is better than the official 5.6 “combined” figure ....... actually it shows 5.2 but I have never believed these displays.
The manufacturers approve it’s use but maybe they don’t know much about their own product.
The popular opinions continue -
https://www.news.com.au/technology/...r/news-story/6669a4e3ada1095980b74615c710caaa

I must stop saving 29 - 35c/L apparently because (supposedly) consumption rises by 4% ........!
Really?.


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luthier said:
I have no doubt after talking to these guys.
I had complete collapse of my valve seats using E10 and if you ring and ask these guys about it they will happily tell you about all the low mileage head jobs that happen from people using these fuels.

Pryce Race Engines

As I said earlier just ask any shop that deals with this every day, don't take the word of a shade tree mechanic who might only do a hundred or two in his life, listen to the blokes with the experience, or not. WTF would I care.
Click to expand...

Ouch - only too happy to learn from other's experience!! What engine did that happen in? Was it similar to the valve-seat recession that occurs in engines (eg 504s) not built for ULP ? Is it possible that, just as valve seats were modified to suit ULP, that engines were modified to handle ethanol?

Cheers

Alec
 
Alloy cylinder heads have hard seats which cope with ‘dry’ LPG perfectly well.
Race engine development guys make money confirming your worst fears of doom and destruction.
RTFM !


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Whatever Dude, I don't really care now as I never use anything but 98 in my Ducati and Moto Guzzi and I use Diesel in my two HDI 406's and I use 91 in my Holden Frontera cause I don't care about it.
The engine it happened in was a 504TI which was definitely more of a 98 engine.
The link I gave was to a very respectable engine reco place that also does race stuff because they are good enough to do it.
They told me how all the little mum and dad bubble cars were coming in with stuffed valves and seats from E10. These are the very cars that are sposed to be able to deal with that stuff.
If you feel you know better than them, that's cool.
It comes down to whether you believe in vaccinations , homeopathic medicine, the power of Cannabis for healing and curing cancer and many things. Sometimes it's a matter of faith and sometimes it happens to you so you believe or not. You might believe in Western medicine and it might let you down.
You might drive round on Ethanol and have no problems or you might end up with an expensive head job or you might be an expensive head job. Dilligaf?
 
87205gti said:
your not supposed to run 91 in a 3 ltre v6, 406 coupe
it says min 95 ???

Bazz
Click to expand...

It's got a knock sensor, it will be fine. Even on mine with the compression bumped up, it never pings.

Generally speaking, the calorific value of 91 octane fuel is higher than 95/98/E10, so you get more bang for your buck. Plus it's cheaper than premium.

I have nothing against E10, at all, I have done thousands and thousands of KM with it in my coupe, but like I said, if needs to be >10% cheaper than 91 for me to use it.
 
Apparently the federal rules state that e10 can have a maximum of 10% ethanol, so it could be less.
Personally, I follow the manufacturer's advice.
My brother bought a hyundai terracan td and was told that if he runs biodiesel in it he would void his warranty. A long time ago I did some research into bioD and I can't see any reason for it, but when he asked me I said he should do as he was told by the dealer. Safest option.
As I said previously, I can't see why ethanol would be a problem, but there is most likely a reason for a list of accpetable cars.
By the way, out of interest (because as far as I can see e10 is not available where I am) I had a look around and they put all sorts of additives into ethanol to stop it chemically eating things........
That would lend weight to the reports from shops about lots of problems. But it may also point to there being a problem in the past that they have or are trying to address.
None of that really helps much because it might HAVE BEEN a problem in the past or it MIGHT STILL be a problem.
And I am still a backyard playaround bloke with 20 -30 cars experience, and I know my input is not worth much.
If in doubt, don't run it......
 
For the last 20 years all local sold cars have been ‘engineered’ for E10 and therefore covered under warranty.
ALL the relevant questions have been answered in the Metro link above.
I’m lucky to be able to source E10/95 fm United when we go to Bendigo for a massive discount to PULP fm woollies and economy is unchanged too.


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luthier said:
I have no doubt after talking to these guys.
I had complete collapse of my valve seats using E10 and if you ring and ask these guys about it they will happily tell you about all the low mileage head jobs that happen from people using these fuels.

Pryce Race Engines


As I said earlier just ask any shop that deals with this every day, don't take the word of a shade tree mechanic who might only do a hundred or two in his life, listen to the blokes with the experience, or not. WTF would I care.
Click to expand...
chill out man,lol
did someone step on your toes ?
 
Demannu said:
It's got a knock sensor, it will be fine. Even on mine with the compression bumped up, it never pings.

Generally speaking, the calorific value of 91 octane fuel is higher than 95/98/E10, so you get more bang for your buck. Plus it's cheaper than premium.

I have nothing against E10, at all, I have done thousands and thousands of KM with it in my coupe, but like I said, if needs to be >10% cheaper than 91 for me to use it.
Click to expand...


thanks mate,just what i needed,someone with the same model and year as my car with real evidence cheers
what is calorific value in layman's terms please ,I'm ignorant of its meaning
ta
Bazz
 
Nagaman said:
For the last 20 years all local sold cars have been ‘engineered’ for E10 and therefore covered under warranty.
ALL the relevant questions have been answered in the Metro link above.
I’m lucky to be able to source E10/95 fm United when we go to Bendigo for a massive discount to PULP fm woollies and economy is unchanged too.


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Click to expand...

yes but the question is about my 1999 model 406 ,so it is just under 20 years old.
 
87205gti said:
what is calorific value in layman's terms please
Click to expand...
Its a comparison of how much energy is in the fuel. You buy fuel per litre, but different fuels have different amounts of energy per litre. There is a 10% difference in energy per litre between diesel and petrol but very little information about the energy difference in the petrol "types":
https://www.techarp.com/automotive/octane-rating-myth-debunked/
Ethanol has a much lower energy content per litre, but some cars are tuned to run more efficiently on E10 so different people see different results.
 
hypermiler said:
Its a comparison of how much energy is in the fuel. You buy fuel per litre, but different fuels have different amounts of energy per litre. There is a 10% difference in energy per litre between diesel and petrol but very little information about the energy difference in the petrol "types":
https://www.techarp.com/automotive/octane-rating-myth-debunked/
Ethanol has a much lower energy content per litre, but some cars are tuned to run more efficiently on E10 so different people see different results.
Click to expand...

Supposedly ‘supermarket’ fuel was considered cheap n nasty too, but then it was branded Vortex and that argument disappeared it seems.
It seems the old Brand Power mentality still stands, code for “let price be your guide”. Value never gets a mention though.


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Appear to have mixed calorific value with octane rating 91, E10, 98.

They are very different and and can have severe consequences on using the cheapest fuel.
Like the Ducati owner spend thousands on a bike/car and save $2.50 for what end on a tank full of crappy fuel

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/unleaded-vs-e10-the-comparison-test-66858


https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-higher-calorific-values-d_169.html

https://www.allianz.com.au/car-insurance/news/octane-rating-and-your-car
 
Post 7/97 all Peugeots are approved to use E10 fuel .....EXCEPT 306 (XU engine) according to the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries.


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Demannu said:
It's got a knock sensor, it will be fine. Even on mine with the compression bumped up, it never pings.

Generally speaking, the calorific value of 91 octane fuel is higher than 95/98/E10, so you get more bang for your buck. Plus it's cheaper than premium.

I have nothing against E10, at all, I have done thousands and thousands of KM with it in my coupe, but like I said, if needs to be >10% cheaper than 91 for me to use it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - although I've used E10 (because it was supposedly almost 95 octane) I've never used ULP (91 octane) in an engine where 95 was specified. Just put half a tank of ULP in the 406 SV to try it out, and it's fine - no pinging! There was some 95 left in the tank, so mixture must be a bit above 91, but not by much. Look forward to testing consumption.

May not work with all engines though - my Xantia Turbo (XU10J2TE) used to ping sometimes on 95.

Cheers

Alec
 
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