DS 23 Roof Restoration

[Ramaling]

Here are some shots from my roof turret rails on my DS23 1973 model.
The structure is in good condition except for the side gutters which are 90% shot. I was originally thinking of a full turret structure replacement but not now.

I am stripping the rails off an old turret I purchased from another member here. That's in these next two shots.

So what I'm planning may seem a bit different and I'm after a sanity check.
I will cut the gutters plus an additional 25mm width from the replacement turret. I will cut all the rusty gutters off my existing car and lay the new gutters plus the 25mm width over the top of my existing rails. I will then use a sealant between the old and new - Sika 291 and than drill through and install stainless steel pop rivets on a staggered pattern to join the old and new. This will have the effect of raising the entire roof about 1.5mm.
I am using rivets instead of plug welds because they will give tighter join and squeeze the sealant very effectively. Also, plug welds would be hard to prepare with the sealant close by.
The pop rivets will not be visible on the front rail but on the sides you would see the small domed head adjacent to the door seal. On the sides I would install them upside down to ensure a good appearance.
Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[DoubleChevron]

I think you will probably find a 25mm overlap will not need the rivets. Those adhesives would be far stronger than welding due to the surface area of the joins. it will also not rust as you have filled the sandwich with sealer/adhesive.

I think this would be a very good repair if you can manage to fit the replacement section without damaging it (it won't have much strength). Have you pulled you windscreen out and checked the surround before you cut up the replacement roof rail?

Rather cutting the edge off, I'm thinking cut only the inner lip away, that way you can lay this section down ontop of the existing frame and using the bolt holes to line everything up.

ie: cut the rusted outer edge off the existing roof frame, and the inner edge of the replacement so they will sandwich together.

seeya
Shane L.

 

[Ramaling]

I think you will probably find a 25mm overlap will not need the rivets. Those adhesives would be far stronger than welding due to the surface area of the joins. it will also not rust as you have filled the sandwich with sealer/adhesive.

I think this would be a very good repair if you can manage to fit the replacement section without damaging it (it won't have much strength). Have you pulled you windscreen out and checked the surround before you cut up the replacement roof rail?

Rather cutting the edge off, I'm thinking cut only the inner lip away, that way you can lay this section down ontop of the existing frame and using the bolt holes to line everything up.

ie: cut the rusted outer edge off the existing roof frame, and the inner edge of the replacement so they will sandwich together.

seeya
Shane L.

This sketch may clarify things. The last stage 3 shows the overlap of about 20-25mm. Does this conform to your suggestion?
It's actually on the curved front section that this idea should work well. Yes I have taken the windscreen out and its surround frame is in good condition. There is an air gap of varying height between the windscreen surround and the roof rail. This is where the leg of the pop rivet will sit and be out of sight.
I would also like to pump some rust retarder into this zone above the windscreen frame. I'm thinking of fishoil or some such. Any Thoughts?

 

[faulksy]

Use 3M panel bond rather than any of the sika sealants. The roof rail has a fair bit of flex in it even when it's welded together so you don't want a flexible sealant/adhesive adding to the movement.

 

[Ramaling]

I think you will probably find a 25mm overlap will not need the rivets. Those adhesives would be far stronger than welding due to the surface area of the joins. it will also not rust as you have filled the sandwich with sealer/adhesive.

I think this would be a very good repair if you can manage to fit the replacement section without damaging it (it won't have much strength). Have you pulled you windscreen out and checked the surround before you cut up the replacement roof rail?

Rather cutting the edge off, I'm thinking cut only the inner lip away, that way you can lay this section down ontop of the existing frame and using the bolt holes to line everything up.

ie: cut the rusted outer edge off the existing roof frame, and the inner edge of the replacement so they will sandwich together.

seeya
Shane L.

Ah yes, the penny dropped - that's a very good idea about cutting the inner lip off. The existing roof has steel spacers at each bolt hole. I could cut the new sections to fit around these spacers very carefully with my Proxon High speed cutter so that everything lined up very nicely.

 

[KAndy]

Thi

 

[KAndy]

I used the 3M adhesive to glue the bottom of my doors together, a better option (for me) than spot welding.
Seemed to be good stuff…

 

[Ramaling]

I used the 3M adhesive to glue the bottom of my doors together, a better option (for me) than spot welding.
Seemed to be good stuff…

Yes it looks like good stuff however I read through their product literature and they don't recommend its use on major structural sections. Now its probably stronger than welds etc but they won't back its use as the sole means of fixing. I am concerned that if in the very unlikely event the roof came loose things wouldn't be good as far as insurance goes. It looks to be great for door panels and lids but I think in my application I need a secure mechanical fixing - welds, rivets, bolts or the like. I might however use it together with the rivets as Faulksy implies.

 

[shibuichi]

I’m not familiar with the 3M panel bond but we used sikaflex with rivets to replace the roof on a Transit and that passed a VASS engineering inspection. So combo sealant/mechanical join is a good idea. Depending on the span we deliberately marked 100 or 150mm intervals for the rivets so they looked really neat and tidy - like an airstream caravan.
Just remember to rust treat and paint all cut edges as you go.

 

[Ramaling]

I’m not familiar with the 3M panel bond but we used sikaflex with rivets to replace the roof on a Transit and that passed a VASS engineering inspection. So combo sealant/mechanical join is a good idea. Depending on the span we deliberately marked 100 or 150mm intervals for the rivets so they looked really neat and tidy - like an airstream caravan.
Just remember to rust treat and paint all cut edges as you go.

Good point and thankyou

 

[Ramaling]

So I made progress today in cutting off the rusted side rails from my DS23 turret frame.
Of note I think the job was done by a previous owner - badly or maybe an accident repair. There was no evidence of wires in the sealant so my guess is it wasn't Solbent.
I used a diamond cutoff wheel on my angle grinder to remove the rails. Found it at Bunnings - they cut like butter and are incredibly fast but are very dangerous. A week ago I cut my thumb down to the knuckle bone. Lots of blood and maybe nerve damage. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THESE THINGS

 

[Buttercup]

Mmmmmm, yes angle grinders!

Fantastic tools, but certainly dangerous.
Its not just cutting blades. I did a bit of damage to my thumb with a flap wheel.
Because of the angle of lay of the flaps, the outside corners on the back are very aggressive and can really dig into flesh.

Sometimes we remove the guards to make the tool more versatile..... I do it too.
However I have also taken to modify the guards so they guard the fingers behind, but don't obscure the useful work area.

Also I have several 5" grinders, each set up with a different type of wheel.
One for grinding, one for cutting, one with coarse flapwheel , one with fine, another with scotch polisher.

Each has the guard reshaped to suit the wheel.

 

[forumnoreason]

never reuse a disc if grinder dropped! I have a similar photo from one that blew up. Man that hurt.

 

[Buttercup]

never reuse a disc if grinder dropped! I have a similar photo from one that blew up. Man that hurt.

Inspection will show disc damage.
I find it's not so much dropping, but storage contact with other stuff. So I usually remove the disc after use.
Also makes it much safer if the grandkids find it. Most of mine are cordless, so they are frequently found in odd places.

 

[Ramaling]

Inspection will show disc damage.
I find it's not so much dropping, but storage contact with other stuff. So I usually remove the disc after use.
Also makes it much safer if the grandkids find it. Most of mine are cordless, so they are frequently found in odd places.

Are you referring to the grandkids? Being cordless I mean

 

[shibuichi]

Are you referring to the grandkids? Being cordless I mean

Any kids are frequently found in odd places...

 

[Buttercup]

With wifi through the house they are definitely cordless.