DS 21 monogram placement

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Fellow Frogger
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François is going gold. Can anyone advise where the correct placement is for the “DS 21” badge on the boot?

It appears to be horizontal in most pics rather than aligned with the trailing edge of the boot.

Matthew

V9eg9y8.jpg
 
Yes horizontal. But the one in the picture is way too high.
I suggest probably a third down the distance to the trailing edge.
Try lowering it a few positions and you'll know when it is just right.
 
Hi Matthew
The positioning is really important.
The only way to be sure is to take a template off an original boot lid.
From memory I got a piece of cardboard on the *inside* of the boot and aligned the bottom edge of the cardboard with the top edge of the boot lower reinforcing piece as well as from the side of the boot. I then punched the holes through the card and transferred the template over to the new boot lid.
Don't try and scale off the outside or estimate - it won't look right.
Also - try and find some original badges and have those replated - the repros are just a waste of money. The guidling goes off really quickly.
Kind regards,
Mark :)
 
Gold badge on gold paint how do you highlight badge ?? Can it be noir
 
ds21bvh said:
Hi Matthew
The positioning is really important.
The only way to be sure is to take a template off an original boot lid.
From memory I got a piece of cardboard on the *inside* of the boot and aligned the bottom edge of the cardboard with the top edge of the boot lower reinforcing piece as well as from the side of the boot. I then punched the holes through the card and transferred the template over to the new boot lid.
Don't try and scale off the outside or estimate - it won't look right.
Also - try and find some original badges and have those replated - the repros are just a waste of money. The guidling goes off really quickly.
Kind regards,
Mark :)
Click to expand...

Yes, try that !
Then once you find out it never works. Look at a lot of original pictures to get a feel for it , then position the badge where it feels right.
 
ds21bvh said:
Hi Matthew
The positioning is really important.
The only way to be sure is to take a template off an original boot lid.
From memory I got a piece of cardboard on the *inside* of the boot and aligned the bottom edge of the cardboard with the top edge of the boot lower reinforcing piece as well as from the side of the boot. I then punched the holes through the card and transferred the template over to the new boot lid.
Don't try and scale off the outside or estimate - it won't look right.
Also - try and find some original badges and have those replated - the repros are just a waste of money. The guidling goes off really quickly.
Kind regards,
Mark :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Mark

I have sourced some NOS badging... just need to find a boot! : )
 
ds21bvh said:
Also - try and find some original badges and have those replated - the repros are just a waste of money. The guidling goes off really quickly.
Click to expand...

And they're the wrong shape! They vaguely look like the originals, but the 'bars' are too thin. Photo shows two originals at the bottom and a repro at the top. The vertical arms of the letters are clearly too thin. I think the '1' figure is also noticeably too thin. I looked at pulling the DS21figures off a rectuangluar 'injection electronique' boot badge - but those letters and numbers are too fat compared to the original boot-mounted ones!IMG_1923 copy.jpg
 
Draw a line across through the boot button and down a fraction and you should be in the correct place. This is the placement for a 1970 21 (pictured around 2005) that was original and unmolested before being painted some years ago, so it would retain the original bootlid.
DS21_Rear_Sml.jpg
It lives on display at Punchbowl. If you can't find another example to look at, you might be able to take measurements or a template from it if you ask.

Looking at the parts list, there was a change in the boot badging part numbers from 9/68. Looking at some photos I have of 1966 vs 1970 21s that most likely still have their original boot lids, the script is not quite the same. Is it possible the repro item is an earlier type? Does 1966 (non-Pallas) possibly want to be on the left and a little further up with a diagonal Citroen script on the right????
 
ds21bvh said:
Hi Matthew
The positioning is really important.
The only way to be sure is to take a template off an original boot lid.
From memory I got a piece of cardboard on the *inside* of the boot and aligned the bottom edge of the cardboard with the top edge of the boot lower reinforcing piece as well as from the side of the boot. I then punched the holes through the card and transferred the template over to the new boot lid.
Don't try and scale off the outside or estimate - it won't look right.
Also - try and find some original badges and have those replated - the repros are just a waste of money. The guidling goes off really quickly.
Kind regards,
Mark :)
Click to expand...

Bottom alignment of the letters and numbers is possibly more important than the vertical gaps between them - if wrong and the line is wobbly, it will look awful. Another (perhaps obvious tip) is to test your template before you commit to your new bottled by drilling some holes in a block of wood and then putting your letters in those.
 
harrisson_citroen said:
Yes horizontal. But the one in the picture is way too high.
I suggest probably a third down the distance to the trailing edge.
Try lowering it a few positions and you'll know when it is just right.
Click to expand...

Bare in mind the lower inner boot lid support - too low and won't be able to fix from behind i.e.

39303330075_18618ffb07_c.jpg

Image courtesy of AF member Brycedun from his Classic Jalopy site.
Preparing the Citroen DS boot lid « Classic Jalopy

Cheers
Chris
 
ds21bvh said:
Hi Phil - do you want to elaborate as to why using the factory position would not be right?
Kind regards,
Mark :)
Click to expand...
Certainly!
First of all when the question was asked originally, the type of monogram to be used was not described, so was it going to be an original one, a repro, a repro 'nos'? Was it going to be the exact year model - as there have been - differences in the monogram ofvthe DS21.
Anyone who has bought overseas repro stuff knows it leaves a lot to be desired.
My opinion is that before you go and drill holes in a DS boot - even though you may be using the 'scientific' way by measuring the offsets -cthere is no guarantee it will look good in the end.
The value of the 'visual' , as in any profession, remains the ultimate way to place a monogram. The goal here is that it looks balanced and pleasing to the eye, most times with the monogram, I find this is the better way, particularly, if one does their research first, anf are aware of what it should look like or what looks disgusting....moving the badge slightly will let yiu know when right or wrong!
 
I'd be inclined to grind off the pins and stick new badges directly to the paint if the boot isn't already drilled. Repro 'gold' may be shiny brass plating.
 
Matthew - some pics here which may help.
The old boot lid is an original from my DS21.
The new pics are where I placed the badges on the replacement NOS bootlid - in exactly the same spot as the original.
Kind regards,
Mark :)

boot1.JPG
boot2.JPG
boot3.JPG
 
harrisson_citroen said:
My opinion is that before you go and drill holes in a DS boot - even though you may be using the 'scientific' way by measuring the offsets -cthere is no guarantee it will look good in the end.
Click to expand...

Phil - I take your point however there is only one place to put it - where the factory did.
The *exact* position of the holes is easy to ascertain - just template off the back of an original lid.
Kind regards,
Mark :)
 
Two specks of dirt on the '2' Mark!!! :eek:
 
Leave it off. If a pair of gold chevrons on the bootlid was all a DS19 needed to identify itself, why does a later D need anything more?

To me, one of the great attributes of a DS is that it is self-evidently a DS: nothing else looks like it or could be mistaken for it. It does not need to identify itself and anyone who needs to have it identified for them does not deserve to know what it is.

Roger
 
ds21bvh said:
Phil - I take your point however there is only one place to put it - where the factory did.
The *exact* position of the holes is easy to ascertain - just template off the back of an original lid.
Kind regards,
Mark :)
Click to expand...

Possibly, but the pins on the proposed 'new' monogram may not work perfectly with the holes newly drilled, even though they are ''right'. That is my point. So it has to be verified with a visual.
 
Roger Wilkinson said:
Leave it off. If a pair of gold chevrons on the bootlid was all a DS19 needed ...
Click to expand...
Yes, but how would you then tell the world about your extra 200cc?
(... and the deficient experience of those with a smaller motor.)
(... plus an extra pair of bearings!)
 
I've been through this - the repros are not worth the trouble.
There is a mob in SA (their name escapes me at the moment) who specialise in this kind of work.
They did a superb job on my badges. I'd rate the finish above NOS which I have on my 69.
It's ALL about the badge IMHO (although I do like the nod to earlier cars in leaving it off as Roger says) - two of the most beautiful features of the DS for me are the gold boot badges and the "DS" emblem on the C-pillars for the Pallas. I remember as a kid seeing the gold and knowing it was the "high performance" model....:)
Kind regards,
Mark :)
 
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