Dauph gordini motor into 4CV

JohnW

Too many posts!
The rear transmission plate issue is a bit murky because of the different versions of various gearboxes. The 314 gearbox (1959-1961 Dauphine and 4cv) had both the thick back plate (up to sometime in 1960) and the thin steel one. I think this is also true for the 318 four speed box. Don't use the 318 gearbox!! The primary shaft eventually fails - I have never seen a good one. Use the 330 gearbox with the steel back plate from a late 314, 318 or a 325 - I think they will fit the gearbox. If not, the plate could be modified. Dauphines sold in the USA beginning in 1964 came with the 330. I eventually changed my automatic Dauphine to a 330 four speed. Since the Dauphine engine bolts right up, the 4cv should also. I have not modified a 4cv cross member, but I think that is the way to go if you do not want to cut the body. Here is a picture of a 330 in a 4cv that sold recently. It doesn't show the crossmember, but shows that it is possible.
View attachment 136816
I've driven a 4CV with a 330 gearbox and it certainly is a nice conversion. A friend in France gave up on his 318 4-speed and installed the 3-speed all synchro box from later Dauphines - with a high diff ratio it goes well but with a big ratio gap. Knowing Andrew's hills I'd be looking for 2 intermediate gears, that is for sure. Most of the 318 cluster shafts that appear here are damaged in the first gear. Old, stored gearboxes can be perfect if the car died for a different reason!!

It also seems that there are two sets of intermediate gear ratios on the 318 gearboxes. I've no idea which is which but the information is out there no doubt in the factory parts books. That means you have to be careful using a cluster shaft that isn't from the same gearbox when rebuilding.
 
Answer to question 1: is that it will bolt straight on to the 3 speed box

Fitting to 4 speed requires adaptation to 4 speed transfer plate to get clutch/thrust race mechanism at optimal angle - will apparently work just as bolt up, but not well.

Kind saviour has offered me 4 speed transfer plate so I can sit and glare at the two while plotting the necessary adaptation to the 4 speed plate. It involves machining up mounts for the clutch shaft, bushing them and then welding into the right spot to get optimal leverage/ function. This best plotted once looking at both transfer plates.

Measurement, planning out and visuospatial thought have never been my long suit ( give me language any day ) so this will probably involve much screaming and throwing of things, together with many errors, but we should get there in the end.

Many thanks

Andrew
Is Keith Pattison's article in the latest Forward relevant here?
My own inclination would be to use a complete R10 back end (crossmember & all bits hanging off it), fit front discs (R10 with some fiddling), cut hole in inner guards to accept spring towers (& screw an elegant domed patch over the hole if you wish) & you'd then have a nice conversion which wouldn't be too dramatically "fiddled"-looking.
 

renojet

New member
To save getting the pivot blocks welded to the steel Gordini diff cover you can use the original clutch cable anchor bracket from the gearbox. All you need to do is to weld an anchor point for the accelerator cable on the bracket as the Gordini has none. It's a long time since my first 4CV with the clutch operating rod from the chassis to the motor but not sure if it would work on those early cars. See photo of modified Gordini bracket. Hope this helps.
I have just been trying to fit this new bracket myself and have found that it didn't work out, the angle is still wrong, will try for a new bracket and post when I have done that.
 

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To save getting the pivot blocks welded to the steel Gordini diff cover you can use the original clutch cable anchor bracket from the gearbox. All you need to do is to weld an anchor point for the accelerator cable on the bracket as the Gordini has none. It's a long time since my first 4CV with the clutch operating rod from the chassis to the motor but not sure if it would work on those early cars. See photo of modified Gordini bracket. Hope this helps.
Many thanks. It seems that there are many different ways, presumably because lots of smart and/or desperate people have faced the same problem.

Your way is attractive, as I come from the shallow end of the fitting/turning gene pool. Keith's article in Fourword was excellent and a very elegant solution but my measurement/setting up/machining skills are very definitely not in that league

I currently have a couple of 318 cases and 2 or 3 sets of innards, with no 330 box, so shall continue plotting around a 318 unless I am able to unearth a 330. This is for the next stage of the project, so I have a bit of time to sit glaring at piles of parts before having to commit.

Many thanks for all the advice

Andrew
 

dauphproto

New member
Dauph 330 cases are slightly different to R8 type 330 the lugs for the bellhousing/ clutch mounting plate are slightly different. Amusingly all Spanish 330 up to 1976 are based on the Early Dauph type, but also fit R8/10/ A110. Renault must have sent the early tooling to FASA and made new R8 onwards tooling for French manufactured units.
 

JohnW

Too many posts!
Dauph 330 cases are slightly different to R8 type 330 the lugs for the bellhousing/ clutch mounting plate are slightly different. Amusingly all Spanish 330 up to 1976 are based on the Early Dauph type, but also fit R8/10/ A110. Renault must have sent the early tooling to FASA and made new R8 onwards tooling for French manufactured units.
That's interesting. Thanks. We didn't get Dauphines with 330 gearboxes, since they finished in 1962/3 when the R8 appeared with the 318 gearbox for the R1130 model
Many thanks. It seems that there are many different ways, presumably because lots of smart and/or desperate people have faced the same problem.

Your way is attractive, as I come from the shallow end of the fitting/turning gene pool. Keith's article in Fourword was excellent and a very elegant solution but my measurement/setting up/machining skills are very definitely not in that league

I currently have a couple of 318 cases and 2 or 3 sets of innards, with no 330 box, so shall continue plotting around a 318 unless I am able to unearth a 330. This is for the next stage of the project, so I have a bit of time to sit glaring at piles of parts before having to commit.

Many thanks for all the advice

Andrew
I have a "condition unknown" 330 you can have. It's been exposed judging by the outside of the case but you could at least play with it for fitting options. The local "pack and send" office can oblige.
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renojet

New member
Many thanks. It seems that there are many different ways, presumably because lots of smart and/or desperate people have faced the same problem.

Your way is attractive, as I come from the shallow end of the fitting/turning gene pool. Keith's article in Fourword was excellent and a very elegant solution but my measurement/setting up/machining skills are very definitely not in that league

I currently have a couple of 318 cases and 2 or 3 sets of innards, with no 330 box, so shall continue plotting around a 318 unless I am able to unearth a 330. This is for the next stage of the project, so I have a bit of time to sit glaring at piles of parts before having to commit.

Many thanks for all the advice

Andrew
Hello again Andrew, I have added to my original post (see above in Italics), and that bracket was still not suitable. I will try again and re post when I have done that.
Regards Frank
 
Hello again Andrew, I have added to my original post (see above in Italics), and that bracket was still not suitable. I will try again and re post when I have done that.
Regards Frank
Many thanks for the warning

Now have both types of plates due to a kind friend, so can puzzle a bit more

Andrew
 
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