D Special seat belts.

You can find new belts listed via eBay for Holden and Ford of the mid-1970's and also from Repco etc.. I think they would be made locally by Autoliv, but you do need belts with local approval. To mount the roller on the sill, a right angle bracket is available. The issue will be the length of the stalk on the floor for a D. The longest aftermarket stalks available a few years ago on offer locally by Autoliv were a few inches too short to poke up properly between the seats. A steel bracket to extend them might be a solution for you and the bar will be stronger than the body mount in case that's a concern. Or you have yours repaired with new webbing.
 

kenlin

Member
A company called APV-S Safety Products, have been able to supply retractable seat belts, front and rear, via Repco for my DS. Their website shows a complex grid of styles to fit most car models. Good advice over the phone too.

Ken
 

robo

Active member
A company called APV-S Safety Products, have been able to supply retractable seat belts, front and rear, via Repco for my DS. Their website shows a complex grid of styles to fit most car models. Good advice over the phone too.

Ken

Hi Ken,

can you share some pictures of how you fitted your retractable rear belts? I would like to fit them to mine.

Cheers
Mark
 

kenlin

Member
I'll see what I can do with some pics in the morning Mark. But once you get the correct units, they will bolt in to the mountings which were already in my car. Very straight forward job.

Ken
 

4cvg

1000+ Posts
I'll repeat past-expressed reasons on request but I advise against fitting retractable belts, they're more dangerous than properly adjusted fixed ones.
 
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kenlin

Member
D Special seat belts

View attachment Front seatbelt for DS.pdfView attachment Front seatbelt for DS.pdf
I'll see what I can do with some pics in the morning Mark. But once you get the correct units, they will bolt in to the mountings which were already in my car. Very straight forward job.

Ken

Attached should be the diagram from the seat belt manufacturer showing the mounting arrangement for the retractable unit at the base of the car's B pillar. There is also a link on this page to a web page showing how to access the part numbers for the seat belt needed for different car models.

I did take some pics on my car but now having trouble transferring them to my PC. Your best help will be from the company info directly.

Ken
 
I'll repeat past-expressed reasons on request but I advise against fitted retractable belts, they're more dangerous than properly adjusted fixed ones.

They can roll/wind up on the spool and end up not as ideally adjusted as hoped in a decent crash, yes. That's a fair consideration and often overlooked or just not known by many people. It is overcome by pyrotechnic tensioners in modern vehicles. However, in the context of safety and cars, that's probably not as much of a worry as choosing to drive a 45yo+ DS. The whole car is fundamentally not very safe compared to almost anything current you might point at. The paranoid should just buy a new car and be done with it.
 

4cvg

1000+ Posts
They can roll/wind up on the spool and end up not as ideally adjusted as hoped in a decent crash, yes. That's a fair consideration and often overlooked or just not known by many people. It is overcome by pyrotechnic tensioners in modern vehicles. However, in the context of safety and cars, that's probably not as much of a worry as choosing to drive a 45yo+ DS. The whole car is fundamentally not very safe compared to almost anything current you might point at. The paranoid should just buy a new car and be done with it.

No doubt.

And presumably bothering to fit any type of belt to a death trap is also merely an exercise in paranoia.

The sensibly prudent should fit fixed belts & adjust them properly. (The issue is the extra length of belt around the spool to add to stretched length.)

Is this a total answer? No. But it is better mitigation of risk than a retractable belt could be.

Good luck! Peter
 
That may be the ideal situation, but why not then insist on wearing full racing gear, helmets and a full harness or go the extra, fit a roll cage or perhaps just buy a safer car. One might argue that for the unconcerned casual occupant, the retractable belt is actually the best option because it has more chance of being closer to correctly adjusted, even in a stretched state, than a poorly or not adjusted fixed belt. If the same people sit in the same seats every time, yes maybe you have a chance of correct adjustment, but the inconvenience of not being able to reach things easily and the fact that the occupants change (taxi anyone? OK, must be<7yo now.) and will likely ignore adjustment means the retractable belt is probably the lesser of two evils.
 

4cvg

1000+ Posts
I understand that the motivation for the relevant legislation concerning retractable belts was indeed that the average citizen was an unthinking slack idiot & that a closer to optimal situation across a population would be achieved by a technically inferior fitment that eliminated reliance upon idiots.

Of course there's a set of conflicting priorities & of course there comes a point where further lessening of risk intrudes too much upon convenience. And, in the other direction, a point where the further gain in convenience (not bothering even with a retractable belt) is too slight to outweigh the benefits gained.

What we speak of, however, is a classic car. Such vehicles usually have one major driver & I would have thought that the burden of adjustment of a fixed belt would be slight. Presumably others find the task more burdensome than I do.

Four point harnesses are indeed a good thing in that they are not only much safer than a fixed 3 point (especially if there's a lateral element in the impact) but locate one without bracing when cornering vigorously. I have them in 3 of my 4 toys (the Djet, the Moke & the 4CVG).

They are actually very easy to put on & (especially in some variants) adjust but have two flaws. One is that they are incompatible with a rear seat (each of the above toys is a 2 seater;; my R8 retains a rear seat & thus doesn't have one). The second is that they are dangerous if not properly adjusted. If the waist belt is not tight across the hip bones, the shoulder straps, when tightened, will draw it up to the abdomen: not a good place for pressure loading. So, even less idiot-proof than a fixed 3 point belt.

Each of my toys exists to be entertaining around a corner on a country road & I have fitted a full roll cage to the Moke after noting how much further up I went than the Moke's bodywork did. I have also fitted a substantial hoop cum half cage to the 4CVG (it is swing-axled & rear-engined after all). I haven't with the Djet as it is so stable & controllable that I deem the chances of rolling it to be so slight that it's not warranted.

I haven't advocated these measures here for a DS as most DS drivers are not fussed about cornering vigorously & wish to retain a rear seat. So other priorities trump extra safety levels. Fine but that says nothing about "it's fussier to adjust properly" constituting much of a case for eschewing the substantially improved safety of a fixed 3-point belt.

Of course you guys will do what you judge to be desirable but that doesn't stop me being bewildered by anyone thinking a retractable belt is the best option.

Bonne chance! Peter
 
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4cvg

1000+ Posts
A post scriptum:

On adjustability of fixed belts:

Many of the belts available are designed for rear seats. Put on the front, these would have belt adjustability on the bit at the base of the "B" pillar. Much easier is for it to be adjustable on the bit at the top of the "B" pillar.

Worth a conversation with the vendor to ensure the better type is what one is buying.

cheers! Peter
 

forumnoreason

1000+ Posts
I would argue the safest way to wear any seat belt is to drive a car within the speed limits and defensively, that should push your survivability way up. : )
 

4cvg

1000+ Posts
I would argue the safest way to wear any seat belt is to drive a car within the speed limits and defensively, that should push your survivability way up. : )

No doubt; but when an event eventuates from left stage, it's not much use bleating that you tried your hardest to avoid it. Even the safest etc. drivers get smacked sometimes.
 

MickyH

New member
Thanks for all the comments!
I am considering a retractable belt for the driver only because I can't reach the hand brake on my ID20 to do hill starts. Finding I need to undo the fixed belt when stopped on hills (at lights). Open to suggestions.
Mick
(new Citroen owner)
 

Greenpeace

Active member
Hi, the newest technology (at time of marketing) in seat belts mentioned here is 40 years old (pyrotechnic tensioners MB 1981).
I have cars without belts, with lap belts, with 3 point fixed, with 3 point retractable, with 3 point retractable and pre-tensioners and one car with ADR approved 4 point harnesses: ie 2" webbing and regular style seat belt buckle. I only fitted harnesses as they were the most suitable system to work with the seats I have in that car.
Anything other than a regular 3 point belt (whether fixed or retractable) are normally used in conjunction with other safety features.
A properly fitting harness will do an admirable job of holding your body in place in a high speed head on crash, but what happens to your head and neck, hence (high speed) race cars also have some form of head and neck restraint fitted.
3 point belts although not perfect, allow the body to fold somewhat to lessen the forces exerted on the head and neck during impact. Pre-tensioners are almost always used in conjunction with airbags.
Modern road cars don't have harnesses for the same reason modern race cars don't have air bags, they don't need them.
My D Special came with retractable belts, don't ask me what they are, they're black and they pull out and reel back in, I'm happy.😁
It's your car, whack some retractables in it, if you're really worried about how much more they might stretch than a fixed 3 point belt in a crash, drive a bit slower or lose some weight.😉
 
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