Converting a 406 Coupé from auto to manual....

OK, I'm no longer merely pondering this, the transmission guy called and told me my box is toast...

This is depressing. I've owned the car for a few months, and hardly driven it, because the ignition barrel died and put her off the road for weeks.

OK, so the main question I have is if I buy a diesel manual as a donor car, can I use everything except the box, and then get a 5 speed from elsewhere? The reason I am thinking of doing this is that the conversion will be a lot easier with a donor car sitting there beside the Coupe, but I am unlikely to find a V6 manual in WA. However, I can probably get a box from the East or O/S so if we can get everything else from a local wreck we can make this a viable proposition. There's a diesel here with a blown engine available for a few hundred bucks.
 
It's great, I love it. But I'm not sure I love it any more than I did the auto. It is a different car. It is more a boy-racer car now than the GT cruiser it was intended to be. Fuel consumption around town is down (depending on driving) but up on the highway (presumably due to the shorter final drive ratio).

My wife won't drive it anymore (and it's supposed to be her car!!). She thinks I've ruined it by going manual. Usually, she prefers manuals over autos. It is too fat, heavy and understeery to be a proper sports car, so she thinks I've tried to make it into something that it isn't. I tend to agree.
 
Oh, and at the moment, I am running the original D8 auto ECU, despite the fact that I now have J4S heads and inlet manifold on it.
 
The diesel will provide you with the gear selector cables and pedal box. There were two different types of selector cable for the ML5 gearbox, there were 'reverse under fifth' and 'reverse next to first' arrangements, the latter having a lift-up collar to engage reverse. You will need to make sure that your cable set matches your gearbox.

The clutch hydraulics are also the same between diesel and V6, assuming they are both D8 or both D9. There was a change to the system, but I'm not sure if they are compatible between the two.

Diesel instrument cluster will not be any use to you. You can always keep the current one, but you'll have the auto selector indicator in the middle and no oil temperature gauge.

You will be able to use the LH driveshaft from the diesel. I believe it is different to the V6 but fits anyway. Not sure how confident I would be putting the full power of the V6 through it in anger. I am fairly sure that the right hand shaft is unique to the V6 5 speed, as is the bearing carrier/lower engine mount arrangement. Some playing around on ServiceBox might confirm this. Manual and auto driveshafts are completely different.

There are some minor wiring changes to be made to get the starter motor, reverse lights and cruise control working with the automatic loom in a manual car.

You're right, it's much easier to have a whole car to swap bits from. But as has been discussed on here of late, the sedan is a better car to drive than the coupe anyway. Tough choice.
 
But as has been discussed on here of late, the sedan is a better car to drive than the coupe anyway. Tough choice.

Must've missed that discussion. Why is the sedan better to drive?
 
Must've missed that discussion. Why is the sedan better to drive?

I find that the coupe feels delicate to drive - it scrapes on everything, doesn't like rough surfaces, and understeers easily. The sedan feels more like the Peugeots of old, doesn't mind bumps, good ground clearance, easier to get into and out of. They feel much more neutral near the limit of adhesion. The SV seats are more comfortable over distance than the coupe seats.

The coupe also has a 115kg weight disadvantage over a similarly specc'ed sedan.

To it's credit though, the coupe has more usable boot space, despite the smaller boot lid.
 
The diesel will provide you with the gear selector cables and pedal box. There were two different types of selector cable for the ML5 gearbox, there were 'reverse under fifth' and 'reverse next to first' arrangements, the latter having a lift-up collar to engage reverse. You will need to make sure that your cable set matches your gearbox.

The clutch hydraulics are also the same between diesel and V6, assuming they are both D8 or both D9. There was a change to the system, but I'm not sure if they are compatible between the two.

Diesel instrument cluster will not be any use to you. You can always keep the current one, but you'll have the auto selector indicator in the middle and no oil temperature gauge.

You will be able to use the LH driveshaft from the diesel. I believe it is different to the V6 but fits anyway. Not sure how confident I would be putting the full power of the V6 through it in anger. I am fairly sure that the right hand shaft is unique to the V6 5 speed, as is the bearing carrier/lower engine mount arrangement. Some playing around on ServiceBox might confirm this. Manual and auto driveshafts are completely different.

There are some minor wiring changes to be made to get the starter motor, reverse lights and cruise control working with the automatic loom in a manual car.

You're right, it's much easier to have a whole car to swap bits from. But as has been discussed on here of late, the sedan is a better car to drive than the coupe anyway. Tough choice.

About the driveshafts as long the diesel is the same in respect to being a d8 or D9 they are the same. I searched service box on a d8 diesel compared to my d8 petrol v6. I ended up using both shafts from a hdi and the rear end from a D9 so all my abs sensors match.
 
About the driveshafts as long the diesel is the same in respect to being a d8 or D9 they are the same. I searched service box on a d8 diesel compared to my d8 petrol v6. I ended up using both shafts from a hdi and the rear end from a D9 so all my abs sensors match.

Good to know! That increases the options for spares..... not that I seem to have needed them. They seem to be pretty robust.
 
Scotty, I'm so "off" this car right now I'm finding your criticisms very compelling... :)

I think we'll just chuck another auto box in and see how we feel in a month or two.
 
i want to do the same to my 3.0 v6 xantia S2 but the wiring is kinda worrying me i need to know how to make the car not know its manual and override the park switch and make the reverse lights come on i have a complete 406 sedan wreck with sub 100000km i can get the gear shiftier out of any manual xantia along with peddles ect as the shifter works exactly the same as the 406 the cluch might be harder but i have enough ingenuity and tools ect to make it work ps i need to keep the xantias loom as the placement of engine bay components is different to the 406 and the engine to body connectors are different
 
i did that with my v6 xantia only got 20000 kms out of it before it was sliping again and whent into disco dashllights its something to do with them heating up they need a sepert cooling system to the engine and a oil cooler to not die quickly apparently take what i say with grain of salt as i drive my car like quite brutally on tracks ect
 
Xantia v6 shouldn’t be hard to convert. The gearshift and clutch hydraulics on a Xantia ct are the same as the 406. You’ll need a pedal box from a CT though. If you use d8 master cylinder It should fit the Xantia ct pedal box. (Think that’s the case as d8 and d9 have different shaped fittings on pedal box and different fittings to the pedal).
As for the wiring, you don’t need to change the loom. Just a very simple modification to make starter and reverse lights work as they should. I don’t even think there’s an issues with the cruise on the Xantia doing this.

i want to do the same to my 3.0 v6 xantia S2 but the wiring is kinda worrying me i need to know how to make the car not know its manual and override the park switch and make the reverse lights come on i have a complete 406 sedan wreck with sub 100000km i can get the gear shiftier out of any manual xantia along with peddles ect as the shifter works exactly the same as the 406 the cluch might be harder but i have enough ingenuity and tools ect to make it work ps i need to keep the xantias loom as the placement of engine bay components is different to the 406 and the engine to body connectors are different
 
Gear selector cables in a 406 are slightly (~50mm) longer than a Xantia. Not sure it would be a problem though.

Clutch hydraulics in the Xantia are routed differently to 406, but potentially might work.

Literally yesterday I sent a Xantia CT Turbo to the scrappers that could have provided you a pedal box. Wish you'd asked earlier!

Wiring is easy if you know how. Just need to make a patch loom for the reversing light switch, and remove and bridge the start lockout relay.
 
What about the torque reduction on gear change might need to find a clutch switch input


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
What about the torque reduction on gear change might need to find a clutch switch input


Is that an ES9J4S or ES9A thing? ES9J4 has no such input. And I don't think Xantias were available with the later engine, the C5 came out around that changeover.
 
D8s had it the later motor did different stuff on only remember because we got a ecu out of a auto for a manual and it didn’t work right it was almost 20 years ago but I think I remember right that that was the problem


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
D8s had it the later motor did different stuff on only remember because we got a ecu out of a auto for a manual and it didn’t work right it was almost 20 years ago but I think I remember right that that was the problem

Interesting. But are you sure it mightn't have been the other way around? A manual ECU into an auto perhaps? Then I can see why you might want the torque reduction feature, but in my manual D8, I simply take my foot off the accelerator during gearchanges.

Part numbers for the auto and manual ECU are different..... this could be why.

But regardless, I've been driving my manual converted D8 with an auto ECU without problems for the last few years.
 
Could be that way around a lot of cars since then have come thru the doors.


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
sweet i talked to some guys one the xantia FB page and the helped me with to wireing i took the that went to the reverse lighting switch on gear box and and cut then did the same whith a spare selector off the gear box then put the car in park tested for contanueaty between the pins then found the two for park then the same for revese then solderd the park two together and solder the reverse switch on other two the put the car in drive on jack stands and teh handbrake on (ps the handbrake is in the rear on xantias) and it started then i pressed the switch and the r lights worked so i think unless some wird limp mode come up when driveing as for the the cluch the one in the 406 ones wont work but if i can find a hdi 110 peddle box im sorted bolts right in and has hydro cluch with the same master as my 406 i think the xantia hose length is diffent but its longer on the 406 so should be fine as for the the gear selctor im yet to get the one out of the 406 because i cant get under it to get it out but looks like it will work
 
Isn’t the hb on the front on xantias


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
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