Conversion to electronic ignition

[21571]

Yes it is running fine at the moment.

The only question is how long will this cheap module go for? So far so good

Is it still going?

I was reminded of a failure i had 20 years ago with the ignition on my Alfa Sprint. It had a hall affect dizzy, but the shaft had worn and as it rotated the gap between the stationary sensor and the rotating magnets grew too high and nothing was sensed and the ignition would fail. Think it was bad on throttle and off throttle/cruising it was ok.

 

[COL]

The injection triggers are a bit different, they have a cam set-up that opens the breakers for approx 160° of the dizzy rotation, not just a pulse as per these or points.

I had a look at your injection thread and there is definitely no room in that part of the distributor for these electronic points replacement modules.

 

[COL]

Is it still going?

I was reminded of a failure i had 20 years ago with the ignition on my Alfa Sprint. It had a hall affect dizzy, but the shaft had worn and as it rotated the gap between the stationary sensor and the rotating magnets grew too high and nothing was sensed and the ignition would fail. Think it was bad on throttle and off throttle/cruising it was ok.

Yes its still going or was the last time I drove the car last year (doesn't get driven much).

 

[geodon]

A bit late on the scene...…………. apologies!

This is the system on my Dauphine.

If you're installing one of these make absolutely certain the collar that goes over the lobes of the distributor shaft is a REALLY tight fit. I assume it has magnets (?) at the critical points that tell the red thing to fire.

Mine wasn't a tight fit & I thought the rotor button held it down but the rotor button's skirt was too short allowing too much clearance. The centrifugal force was making it lift, lose engagement with the lobes & stop rotating = no spark!

I had to use a tiny drop of Araldite on it to keep it where it should be.

 

[R8RX]

I have just started looking at my distributor. It is a Ducellier R243-D59 and I disassembled it yesterday. Do anybody know if the Accuspark electronic ignition kit will fit this distributor?

I haven't worked on distributors before and one thing made me doubt the condition of my distributor. The centrifugal weights seemed very loose. They almost fell out of the slots in the plate when I turned the shaft by hand. And I had to push the weights back in by hand. I know the centrifugal forces are much bigger when the engine is running, so I don't know if my distributor is alright or if I have to look for another.

I hope this was understandable and that someone can help me.

 

[Frans]

The bushes on the weights must be loose but a nice fit. Move freely but no up and down play. If you don't have a small lathe to turn new brass bushes for the weights, you can use the nylon bushes from two old sets of points. The nylon or fibre bush on the points swivel fits in the weights. It will last for a while until you can collect more old ones from friends. I cannot say how long it will last but it will certainly help you out.
Regards, Frans.

 

[R8RX]

Thank you very much Frans. Yes, there was some up and down play, so this needs fixing then. Have to investigate a bit regarding brass bushes. But have some old points lying around.

 

[R8RX]

Another quick question, what is the easiest way to remove the centrifugal weights from the distributor? Only thing I didn't manage to remove.

 

[COL]

Another quick question, what is the easiest way to remove the centrifugal weights from the distributor? Only thing I didn't manage to remove.

To get easy access to the advance components is to remove the drive dog from the bottom of the distributor.

This is done by removing the the coil spring from the drive dog itself, then drive out the little pin that holds the drive dog to the shaft. When this is done you can remove the drive dog from the shaft. After that you can extract the shaft from the distributor body.

A little caveat here, there will most likely be some shims between the drive dog and the distributor body. Also the dogs are offset on the drive dog, even though the drive dog can be put on either way the car will only run when its in the correct way. You may want to put some marks on the distributor body to make sure the correct drive dog orientation lines up with the the rotor button.

 

[R8RX]

To get easy access to the advance components is to remove the drive dog from the bottom of the distributor.

This is done by removing the the coil spring from the drive dog itself, then drive out the little pin that holds the drive dog to the shaft. When this is done you can remove the drive dog from the shaft. After that you can extract the shaft from the distributor body.

A little caveat here, there will most likely be some shims between the drive dog and the distributor body. Also the dogs are offset on the drive dog, even though the drive dog can be put on either way the car will only run when its in the correct way. You may want to put some marks on the distributor body to make sure the correct drive dog orientation lines up with the the rotor button.

Thank you very much Nice and detailed explanation

 

[schlitzaugen]

You can only put it 180 degrees apart, which will need to have the dizzy installed about face to get the ignition timing correct. If you have a vacuum capsule, that may hit the rocker cover. If you don't, there is no problem.

Or, you can swap the plug wires 180 degrees.

 

[COL]

You can only put it 180 degrees apart, which will need to have the dizzy installed about face to get the ignition timing correct. If you have a vacuum capsule, that may hit the rocker cover. If you don't, there is no problem.

Or, you can swap the plug wires 180 degrees.

If you put the drive dog on the wrong way you will have the rotor button pointing 180 deg out, you may be able to fix it by re-arranging the plug leads if they are long enough.

 

[R8RX]

Just a quick question How much play is acceptable between the distributor shaft and drive dog? Or shouldn't there be any play at all?

 

[schlitzaugen]

There's quite a fair bit of play but I don't think much rotational play. Side to side it doesn't matter anyway and the drive dog is rather loose, but you don't want too much if any play in rotation or you'll have a hell of a time getting the ignition timing steady. Keep in mind there is play between the camshaft gear and the drive, then the drive and the dog, then the dizzy shaft and the rotor at the top. All of that is taken up in normal operation but you'd like to minimise it as best you can. I think all up (at the rotor) the play ends up about 10-15 degrees. This is easy to check by hand when the dizzy and all the parafernalia is in place.

 

[dauphproto]

Mr 123 is Dutch and has a limited range, however there is a guy in Germany 123.de who uses the Dutch bits to make a much bigger range including one offs (as stated above). It is not all plain sailing tho. and I have heard about a couple of failures which have been expensive lessons. The most important thing to remember with all systems is that there is a good earth path from the unit (whatever type ) to the dizzy body and back to the engine. Slight resistances in the earth path cause overheating of most types of module. It is not obvious as the engine runs, but the problem is there and tends to manifest itself as a complete failure later.

 

[R8RX]

There's quite a fair bit of play but I don't think much rotational play. Side to side it doesn't matter anyway and the drive dog is rather loose, but you don't want too much if any play in rotation or you'll have a hell of a time getting the ignition timing steady. Keep in mind there is play between the camshaft gear and the drive, then the drive and the dog, then the dizzy shaft and the rotor at the top. All of that is taken up in normal operation but you'd like to minimise it as best you can. I think all up (at the rotor) the play ends up about 10-15 degrees. This is easy to check by hand when the dizzy and all the parafernalia is in place.

Thank you I tried to mount the distributor yesterday and when I turned the rotor there seemed to be some play. Can turn the rotor freely back and forth a bit. Took the distributor out and the play looked to be in the drive dog/shaft assembly.

But I guess there was not more than 10 - 15 degrees at the rotor arm.

 

[RINGER]

If a distributor has mechanical advance what is seemingly described is normal rotation of the rotor/cam relative to the distributor drive. What is being done is manually moving the cam is against the springs holding weights that move out under centrifugal force thus advancing ignition timing to suit speed & load.

 

[JohnW]

A bit late on the scene...…………. apologies!

This is the system on my Dauphine.

If you're installing one of these make absolutely certain the collar that goes over the lobes of the distributor shaft is a REALLY tight fit. I assume it has magnets (?) at the critical points that tell the red thing to fire.

Mine wasn't a tight fit & I thought the rotor button held it down but the rotor button's skirt was too short allowing too much clearance. The centrifugal force was making it lift, lose engagement with the lobes & stop rotating = no spark!

I had to use a tiny drop of Araldite on it to keep it where it should be.

They aren't perfect in dimensions. On mine, the circular bit that presses onto the shaft rubbed the red bit and I had to file them down a bit to prevent contact. That said, it worked perfectly for years until I replaced it with a 123 distributor, which has given me the best starting I've ever had on the R8 in 48 years of ownership.

Thank you I tried to mount the distributor yesterday and when I turned the rotor there seemed to be some play. Can turn the rotor freely back and forth a bit. Took the distributor out and the play looked to be in the drive dog/shaft assembly.

But I guess there was not more than 10 - 15 degrees at the rotor arm.

There's always a bit of slop in the whole driving train. When you turn the rotor shaft anticlockwise, that is effectively where it will be when driven clockwise from beneath. 15 degrees sounds a bit much but if it works.....