Clutch Problem with 505 STi ('84)

GRAHAM WALLIS said:
Just getting the starter motor out of the STI/GTI requires the front cross member to be lowered and a special tool used.
Graham
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When I had an Sti I must have taken out the starter motor 1/2 dozen times (intermittant fault). I remember the first few times tested my patience but once I got the hang of it it wasn't too bad. I never once lowered the crossmember or used a special tool.
Just a good selection of normal tools.

Jarrod
 
my clutch of my 505 gti had a few problems one was the push rod from clutch pedal broke where it hindges in the pedal and the other was that the yoke that pushes on the spiget bearing moved out of place , most likly do to one of the hoses being worn and a small piece of rubber being caught in slave cylinder and making the clutch move more then it should,

when i done the clutch in my car i pulled the engine out wasnt a bad job but took some time , me and dad slowly done it over the xmas holidays. New clutch can make a hell of a difference to the gear change :)

good luck :cheers:
 
PCOATES505 said:
...But since your problem started after some "enjoyable driving" with I assume lots of gear changing, then I would look to the slave cylinder having sucked in some air!...
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Yes, it was quite enjoyable. Except for the full body sweat I worked up when I reached my destination, and the same when I got home. The last 10 or so Km's into Queenstown where the worst, 99 bends dropping down the side of a cliff, all in the space of a few km's. I think it's not an underestimate that I would of changed gear at least a few hundred times in that journey, because I think for every km of travel I would of had at least one and as high as three gear changes.

I'll look at the slave cylinder monday when I can get it back on the hoist. Today though I'll try and bleed it again see if that improves everything.

Poor old thing, she's done over 300,000Kms, 70K or so of that has been done in the last 8 or so months since I brought her. It's no wonder it's showing signs of aging.
 
Ray Bell said:
Trust me, they are nigh on impossible to bleed on the car... take it off...
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What a load,

I've bled HEAPS of these over time, and I've never had a real problem with them, just hook up one of those brake bleeding valve things from Super Cheap and get someone to pump away, NO probs!

Done in 5 mins most of the time!


Ben
 
Let me tell you, if you get one that doesn't want to bleed, you won't bleed it.

I changed everything except the master cylinder, even the line on one and it never bled properly. I had to pump the clutch pedal to drive it.

Of course it could have been the master cylinder...

On the other hand, ones I've done since then I've done by allowing the fluid to drain down into the slave cylinder before assembly, holding it vertical, and then put the guts into it, inverting it and pushing the piston right in. Bled all in one go, ready to bolt or clip on.
 
Well I fixed it. The line still had some air left in it after the master cylinder change (as I suspected), so I bled the system again, putting through at least another 200 or so ml's of fluid through the line. Took a good look at the slave and no fluid is leaking out of it, so looks like I dodged that bullet.

The clutch is dis-engaging fully now. But I'll definantly take all your advise onboard if it happens again.

Thanks for all the help. :cheers:
 
Reverse bleeding the clutch

To reverse bleed the 505 clutch I use a cheap pump type oil can fitted with a a suitably sized length of plastic tubing that will slip over the bleed nipple on the slave cylinder. The "oil" can of course has to be completely free of mineral oil and I have an oil can dedicated to this purpose. A few squirts of brake fluid and the clutch or brakes are bled.
 
505 cluych problem

I had the same problem with '82 GR. I also chased the problem through the master cylinder, slave cylinder and pedal with limited effect. couldn't believe that the pressure plate had a problem because it didn't slip but ended up removing the clutch. Although the pressure plate appeared normal, the bellville spring was cracked in one place. It was hard to see because the crack was at the circumference. When the fingers are loaded, they do not depress uniformly, some moving more than others. The pressure plate doesn't lift properly and the clutch drags abominably. New pressure plate fixed the problem.

Armunn said:
I have a problem with my 505's clutch. After a decent trip (around 600kms of mostly the windiest roads in Australia) the next day it was difficult to put my car into gear, and change gears whilst moving. When stationary the car would move forward slightly as I put it into 1st or slightly backwards as I put the car into reverse.

Now this I suspected the clutch wasn't disengaging fully, so looking at both the master and slave cylinders and comparing my pedal travel/weight to another 505 my mechanic and myself came to the conclusion that the master cylinder was the cause of the problem, so we put a new one in today. After looking at the seals, some slight wear was noticed, but not enough to indicate that it was the culprit to the sudden change.

Also after we changed the master cylinders, the problem was lessened, but the clutch still isn't fully disengaging.

Now the clutch isn't slipping at all, so it may not be a worn clutch. If it was the gearbox and syncro's failing then I shouldn't notice the car moving slighty when I change gears at idle.

Has anyone come across the same problem and know what it is? I really don't want to change the clutch, as that's going to be a nightmare, and find that didn't solve the problem.

Also has anyone changed a clutch in a 505, and if so what's the best way to get at it? Due to the driveshaft being solidly bolted to the diff and the engine, it's not a simple matter of dropping the tailshaft and sliding the gearbox back, as it was in the Celica I used to drive.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.
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I had the same problem wit an '82 GR and chased it through the master cylinder, slave cylinder and pedal with limited effect. I couldn't believe it was the pressure plate because there was no slippage under load. In the end, I pulled the clutch out. At first, I couldn't see anything wrong with it but when I pulled the plate down with clamps, the fingers did not depress evenly ie some moved down more than others. A really close look at the bellville spring revealed a crackat the periphery - very hard to see. A new pressure plate fixed the problem. It is a good idea to replace the friction disc at the same time or the pressure plate will outlast it and it will be clutch out again.
 
Don't take it off.

I recently replaced the clutch master cylinder on by 505 GTI. It had a leak behind the pedal where the actuator shaft goes into the cylinder.

I replaced it with another one and bled it conventionally and could not get enough clutch - that was pumping the pedal and all. I thought the book must be wrong when it was talking about reverse bleeding the system.

Then I used a big syringe with some rubber tubing and reverse bled it with this. The syringe held about 100ml each time. Did it about 4-5 times to make sure (just have to keep checking you don't overflow your reservior) and Presto - full clutch.

Don't go to more trouble than you have to. If it doesn't help reverse bleeding it, then start looking further. Just have a quick look at the actuator rod. Both the ones on my 505 Diesel and the GTI were badly worn where they connect to the pedal pendant.

Anyway, Best of luck!!
Cheers

Ian
 
Resurrecting an ancient thread here, but might as well keep similar problems together.

My 505 GTI recently failed to proceed when the clutch pedal went rock hard. Turned out that the flexible hose had swollen (as Graham mentioned upthread all those years ago). I went to a brake specialist who made me up a replacement (incidentally, Pirtek didn't want to know about anything that carried brake fluid). That got the car going again; brought it home and went through all the clutch hydraulics.

I suspected the hose had been resisting things for a while -- that the fluid had only been getting through peristaltically -- and, sure enough, it looked like the piston had only been moving a small distance in the slave cylinder. Honed the cylinder and it came up fine. Seal looked good so back in it went. Master cylinder wasn't so great. I've been through a few of these and suspect the cheap ones aren't made of the finest metal, so this time I had an old one sleeved and fitted a seal kit.

After this the pedal felt great and all seemed fine to begin with. However, after driving for a while, the pedal became spongy. Re-bled. Same thing happened. Eventually, I worked out that the sponginess wouldn't happen if I released the clutch pedal slowly on every shift -- as if bleeding.

While this enforced stately progress is probably good for fuel economy, it'd be nice to have a normal clutch again.

My hypothesis is that the original hose might have acted as a restrictor. No matter how quickly the master cylinder was released, the low pressure in the hydraulic fluid went no further than the hose. Now with a free-flowing hose, negative pressure gets all the way to the slave cylinder and its one-way seal allows air to be drawn in.

A wacky idea, but I'm otherwise stumped how the air can be getting in.

Incidentally, I have found what seems to be a very easy way to bleed the clutch. Just get a pry-bar in behind the clutch fork and push the slave cylinder piston back into the cylinder. You should hear the air bubbling in the reservoir. Release the fork *very gradually* (taking say 15 seconds to do it). Repeat two more times and you won't hear any more bubbles. Pedal is fine after that.

(If Peugeot really designed the flexible hose to be a kind of residual line pressure valve, maybe the above bleeding technique won't work)

Not too happy with my theory, so would welcome other suggestions.

Have fun,

Rob.
 
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