Clutch Problem with 505 STi ('84)

A

Armunn

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
36
Location
Melbourne.Vic.Au
I have a problem with my 505's clutch. After a decent trip (around 600kms of mostly the windiest roads in Australia) the next day it was difficult to put my car into gear, and change gears whilst moving. When stationary the car would move forward slightly as I put it into 1st or slightly backwards as I put the car into reverse.

Now this I suspected the clutch wasn't disengaging fully, so looking at both the master and slave cylinders and comparing my pedal travel/weight to another 505 my mechanic and myself came to the conclusion that the master cylinder was the cause of the problem, so we put a new one in today. After looking at the seals, some slight wear was noticed, but not enough to indicate that it was the culprit to the sudden change.

Also after we changed the master cylinders, the problem was lessened, but the clutch still isn't fully disengaging.

Now the clutch isn't slipping at all, so it may not be a worn clutch. If it was the gearbox and syncro's failing then I shouldn't notice the car moving slighty when I change gears at idle.

Has anyone come across the same problem and know what it is? I really don't want to change the clutch, as that's going to be a nightmare, and find that didn't solve the problem.

Also has anyone changed a clutch in a 505, and if so what's the best way to get at it? Due to the driveshaft being solidly bolted to the diff and the engine, it's not a simple matter of dropping the tailshaft and sliding the gearbox back, as it was in the Celica I used to drive.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.
 
Armunn said:
I have a problem with my 505's clutch. After a decent trip (around 600kms of mostly the windiest roads in Australia) the next day it was difficult to put my car into gear, and change gears whilst moving. When stationary the car would move forward slightly as I put it into 1st or slightly backwards as I put the car into reverse.

Now this I suspected the clutch wasn't disengaging fully, so looking at both the master and slave cylinders and comparing my pedal travel/weight to another 505 my mechanic and myself came to the conclusion that the master cylinder was the cause of the problem, so we put a new one in today. After looking at the seals, some slight wear was noticed, but not enough to indicate that it was the culprit to the sudden change.

Also after we changed the master cylinders, the problem was lessened, but the clutch still isn't fully disengaging.

Now the clutch isn't slipping at all, so it may not be a worn clutch. If it was the gearbox and syncro's failing then I shouldn't notice the car moving slighty when I change gears at idle.

Has anyone come across the same problem and know what it is? I really don't want to change the clutch, as that's going to be a nightmare, and find that didn't solve the problem.

Also has anyone changed a clutch in a 505, and if so what's the best way to get at it? Due to the driveshaft being solidly bolted to the diff and the engine, it's not a simple matter of dropping the tailshaft and sliding the gearbox back, as it was in the Celica I used to drive.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.
Click to expand...

Try changing the hydraulic hose, I did this and found a lighter pedal and more disengagement. They tend to swell inside.
Graham
 
I'd suggest you thoroughly check it out to see that the whole problem isn't a leaky slave cylinder...

But another problem that arises is the clutch fork wearing. If you are getting good travel at the slave cylinder and the clutch isn't disengaging, the fork might be worn out at the pivot point... sad news... box out to fix...

Easiest method of removal would be to drop the front crossmember, making sure nothing will snag or stretch. Put the car on stands ahead of the crossmember, undo the crossmember bolts and put in bolts about 2" longer than these (504 head bolts are fine) then allow the crossmember, engine and all, to drop that far.

You will also need to undo things like the exhaust shield under the torque tube, and you have to undo the main two differential mounting bolts and pull the diff back as far as you can. It will be a total bitch getting the tail shaft off the gearbox, but if you're careful to not let the rear spline come off the diff, you will manage it somehow.

Check the hydraulics to exhaustion first!
 
Ray Bell said:
I'd suggest you thoroughly check it out to see that the whole problem isn't a leaky slave cylinder...
Click to expand...

Checked the slave cylinder fully, and it isn't leaking. But I'll double check it again tommorow when I rebleed the system just to make sure it isn't air in the lines still. Since I fully cleaned it externally, any leaks will be easily seen.
 
Bleeding them is very hard, I think air gets trapped in the line where it goes across the back of the engine. If you can take the slave cylinder off and hold it up higher than the master cylinder you might do some good.

All the same, it's sounding ominous...
 
Yeah I was reading one of the workshop manuals that you need to reverse bleed them, i.e. push the fluid through the slave into the resivoir. Peugeot have a special pump to do it, but I'm sure I can make something up to suit.
 
Clutch Problems

Ray Bell said:
I'd suggest you thoroughly check it out to see that the whole problem isn't a leaky slave cylinder...

But another problem that arises is the clutch fork wearing. If you are getting good travel at the slave cylinder and the clutch isn't disengaging, the fork might be worn out at the pivot point... sad news... box out to fix...

Easiest method of removal would be to drop the front crossmember, making sure nothing will snag or stretch. Put the car on stands ahead of the crossmember, undo the crossmember bolts and put in bolts about 2" longer than these (504 head bolts are fine) then allow the crossmember, engine and all, to drop that far.

You will also need to undo things like the exhaust shield under the torque tube, and you have to undo the main two differential mounting bolts and pull the diff back as far as you can. It will be a total bitch getting the tail shaft off the gearbox, but if you're careful to not let the rear spline come off the diff, you will manage it somehow.

Check the hydraulics to exhaustion first!
Click to expand...



I agree entirely Ray about comprehensively check the hydraulics first. If the master cylinder is worn, probably the slave cylinder is worn as well.

It's always a good idea to look at the hoses as well.

I think EAI have the bits new and it's worth the considering replacing the lot.

Fro personal experience any time I have tried to fit a kit kits to older hydraulic cylinders it has alway turn to sh!t and I have ended up replacing the cylinders (or having the stainless lined) anyway.

I have never has problems with clutch fork wear.

Bleed the assembly off the car if can -it's much easier

Best of luck.
 
What about wear on the master cylinder push rod has it just about worn through. That pesky bit of bent wire ?

Tim
 
Clutch problem with 505 STi [84]

With the 504 it was easier to replace a clutch assembly by removing the engine.
Is the STi a different ball game?

I would agree that the slave cylinder is the culprit. Pull back the rubber boot on the cylinder, any oil? Voila!
 
Both the 505 body (particularly the air conditioning ducting) and the engine itself are more difficult. Even the fact that there are more bolts on the bellhousing.

Biggest problem is splitting the tail shaft from the box... it has to be lined up absolutely straight or it won't come off.

The diff has to move back enough for this to clear, that's all, it will just sit there with the torque tube sitting on the crossmember.
 
Armunn said:
I have a problem with my 505's clutch. After a decent trip (around 600kms of mostly the windiest roads in Australia) the next day it was difficult to put my car into gear, and change gears whilst moving. When stationary the car would move forward slightly as I put it into 1st or slightly backwards as I put the car into reverse.

Now this I suspected the clutch wasn't disengaging fully, so looking at both the master and slave cylinders and comparing my pedal travel/weight to another 505 my mechanic and myself came to the conclusion that the master cylinder was the cause of the problem, so we put a new one in today. After looking at the seals, some slight wear was noticed, but not enough to indicate that it was the culprit to the sudden change.

Also after we changed the master cylinders, the problem was lessened, but the clutch still isn't fully disengaging.

Now the clutch isn't slipping at all, so it may not be a worn clutch. If it was the gearbox and syncro's failing then I shouldn't notice the car moving slighty when I change gears at idle.

Has anyone come across the same problem and know what it is? I really don't want to change the clutch, as that's going to be a nightmare, and find that didn't solve the problem.

Also has anyone changed a clutch in a 505, and if so what's the best way to get at it? Due to the driveshaft being solidly bolted to the diff and the engine, it's not a simple matter of dropping the tailshaft and sliding the gearbox back, as it was in the Celica I used to drive.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.
Click to expand...
changing the clutch is easy its a matter of undoing two bolts holding the diff
up,four bolts behind the gearbox droping the exhaust & then u can slide the
torque tube back but becareful when sliding it back u must slide the inner tube back at the same time & now your halfway there
 
once you get the torque tube back around 30mm you can fit a good sized shifter in there and lever the tailshaft back

this not onnly keeps the spline engaged on the diff but it also pushed the tube back at the same time

this method i have used for years

mind you you need at least a 15" shifter for the jaws to open wide enough to fit over the tailshaft

where the spline joins the shaft is a weld and this is what you are wanting to rest against to push the shaft back

works everytime
 
Ray Bell said:
Both the 505 body (particularly the air conditioning ducting) and the engine itself are more difficult. Even the fact that there are more bolts on the bellhousing.

Biggest problem is splitting the tail shaft from the box... it has to be lined up absolutely straight or it won't come off.

The diff has to move back enough for this to clear, that's all, it will just sit there with the torque tube sitting on the crossmember.
Click to expand...
Just getting the starter motor out of the STI/GTI requires the front cross member to be lowered and a special tool used.
Graham
 
would it be easier to take the engine and gearbox out in one piece?

i once did a 504 clutch that way and it was quite easy, but, it was no STi 505, so things might be diferant.
 
The only times I ever took one of these apart it was in cars that were being wrecked. I can't remember the first one, but the second I took the lot out together... and had a huge problem getting that tail shaft off.

What's the special tool for the starter, Graham? I must have pulled one out along the line...
 
Armunn,

The 505 STI / GTI is not known for clutch wear if driven sensibly. Having said that, though, I acknowledge that some of these cars are starting to accumulate a large number of kilometers, and even a Peugeot clutch is going to wear out eventually!

I removed the g/box on my STI to investigate clutch shudder (when hot), and at 350,000 km at that stage, the clutch assembly was less than half worn. I have had the symptoms you have described twice in the past, and both times it was the clutch master cylinder.

I agree with all comments to date re other checks (hose between master & slave cylinder etc). Yes, they are not easy to bleed, and reverse bleeding is one option. Also, check the actuating rod for wear / travel etc.

Good Luck,

Kim.
 
Clutch Problem etc.

After reading through the previous posts re removing engines, gearboxes, starter motors etc It has confirmed one of my long held beliefs that the Peugeot 504 would have to be the last good Peugeot. :cheers:

"If it hasn't got chrome bumpers [stainless?] give it a miss". :wink2:
 
Wildebeest said:
After reading through the previous posts re removing engines, gearboxes, starter motors etc It has confirmed one of my long held beliefs that the Peugeot 504 would have to be the last good Peugeot. :cheers:

"If it hasn't got chrome bumpers [stainless?] give it a miss". :wink2:
Click to expand...


that includes 604's :D

starters aren't too hard to get out of them but alternators are a PITA
 
I had the same problem with one of my sti's, and it was the slave cylinder. I put a kit in it then the only way to get it to work was to reverse bleed it. Had no trouble since.The other problem I struck was a worn pushrod on the pedal, But since your problem started after some "enjoyable driving" with I assume lots of gear changing, then I would look to the slave cylinder having sucked in some air! Also I have had the starter out of the car twice and both times I found it took longer to get the cable of the starter than it did to undo the bolts and remove the starter. To get the starter out I put the car on ramps, used a 3/8 drive socket set with a couple of wobble bar extensions, took all of ten minutes to undo the bolts and take the starter out under the car. Probably took 15 mins prior to that to get the cable of the solenoid. I was dreading doing this job because of all the posts about how hard they are, dropping cross members, etc. I found it was one of the easiest jobs that I have had to do on the sti.
Regards Pete
 
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