Car misses AFTER wet weather

Beano

Beano

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2004 Getz misses in damp weather after rain


I have a 2004 Hyundai Getz with only 62,000 Ks, which is a fantastic car in many ways....especially on fuel.:D

It has a very very slight miss in normal operation. So slight that I haven't bothered hunting down the cause. It's more like it's not quite in tune, and I'm used to that after owning a 504 with points ignition. :cool:

During wet weather it's fine, but AFTER wet weather, the damp or condensation causes it to develop a miss which I am sure is electrical, but there appears to be nothing wrong with the leads, spark plug insulators and the way they seal on to the spark plug tubes. I can then drive it all the way across town and is still like that after getting to operating temperature, but after then being then parked for half an hour, it mostly disappears. It's not like one cylinder is not firing....more just a general (but pretty bad) miss at a certain rev range, which disappears when I put my foot right down.. My deduction is that there is a tiny crack in one of the spark coils (there are two) which takes some time to dry out...but I cannot see a crack. Mind you, I can't examine them in situ very well.

Does anyone know if there are any common problems which may also cause this behaviour ? And would you agree that two new coils would fix it ?
Maybe a module ? I tried posting on two Hyundai forums but got no answers.

I don't want to buy coils and then find myself back at square one
 
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Had a mate with a similar model and age that started to develop electrical problems. After wasting money on failed repairs and replacement modules I told him that was the life span of the thing and he bought another.
 
Beano said:
2004 Getz misses in damp weather after rain


I have a 2004 Hyundai Getz with only 62,000 Ks, which is a fantastic car in many ways....especially on fuel.:D

It has a very very slight miss in normal operation. So slight that I haven't bothered hunting down the cause. It's more like it's not quite in tune, and I'm used to that after owning a 504 with points ignition. :cool:

During wet weather it's fine, but AFTER wet weather, the damp or condensation causes it to develop a miss which I am sure is electrical, but there appears to be nothing wrong with the leads, spark plug insulators and the way they seal on to the spark plug tubes. I can then drive it all the way across town and is still like that after getting to operating temperature, but after then being then parked for half an hour, it mostly disappears. It's not like one cylinder is not firing....more just a general (but pretty bad) miss at a certain rev range, which disappears when I put my foot right down.. My deduction is that there is a tiny crack in one of the spark coils (there are two) which takes some time to dry out...but I cannot see a crack. Mind you, I can't examine them in situ very well.

Does anyone know if there are any common problems which may also cause this behaviour ? And would you agree that two new coils would fix it ?
Maybe a module ? I tried posting on two Hyundai forums but got no answers.

I don't want to buy coils and then find myself back at square one
Click to expand...
Hi.

If you can see your ignition coils and leads, I would try this. Even better if you can do this while the "missing" is occuring.

At night when it is dark, (headlights off, and away from street lights), lift the bonnet and start the engine. If you let your eyes adjust to the dark, you can often see sparks tracking on plug lead or insulation, that might give you a clue for where to start looking. If your car in an automatic transmission, and it is safe to do so, get someone in the drivers seat, ensure hand brake is on and foot brake is firmly applied. Place the auto in Drive and rev the engine at approx 1000 RPM. This puts load on the engine with additional load on the voltage needed to fire the spark plugs. Continue to check for high tension secondary ignition leaks and tracking etc.

In addition to this you could have a length of insulated wiring cable with one end attached to the chassis earth, and the other bare. Move this in and around the coils and leads to provide additional opportunities for the spark to leak from the high tension system.

PS: Don't hold auto in stall more than 15 seconds or so at a time, and allow say a minute for the oil to circulate out of the torque converter, otherwise the oil in the torque converter can overheat.
PPS: as it is dark in the engine bay keep your fingers/clothing away from drive belts and fans.

Also have you measured the ohms resistance on the ignition leads, the old rule of thumb used to be less than 10,000 ohms per foot, with no lead more than 30,000 ohms resistance.
 
Thanks Russell, but I can't see anything major happening at only 60,000 Ks.

Thanks Whippet, it's actually a manual, but I can always get someone trusted to stall it in 3rd gear while I stand to one side leaning over (and with my toes out of line with the wheels).
And I'll measure the resistance....hadn't thought of that. Plus the 'bit of wire' trick......it's supposed to be raining here this week.
 
Beano,

I could be cynical and say, with all the water up this way recently, it is missing because it's flooded.

I had one of these little cars and about the same vintage . Bought it new and it never missed a beat. Only sold it when the son out grew it. A work colleague bought it off me and he ran it for about another 6 years, without any major issues. Town cars have come a long way and sadly s**t canned without justification.

I digress badly, Totally agree with Whippet. Also look at your leads, road grim build up can also cause a miss. Two guesses for how I know.
 
The point with my friend was he had spent maybe $700 on diagnosis and relay replacement at a dealer with no effect, the money was going to build up and he could afford a new one.
 
Hmm it was my experience on a similar engine possibly in a Kia that a new pair of coils and the associated two leads solved the problems. They tested OK and looked reasonable but I bit the bullet after quite a while and it was much better. Locating a couple of coils down the holes and the other leads does stress them out with the heat and the oil and coolant that can get into the plug tubes. The plug extension 'covers' do get a bit contaminated so a clean and some electrical insulation coating helped sometimes.
As I remember the parts were not too expensive either.
Jaahn
 
Okay....you convinced me. But as I am stingy, I shall buy a pair of secondhand spark coils. :cool:

The setup is similar to a mid-80s Peugeot 505, in that there are spark plug tubes, and long insulators which have rubber plugs which are a very good fit at the top of them.
I have checked these carefully and the rubber plugs at the top seem perfect, and there is no sign of tracking on the insulators, so no sparking across.
But starting with the coils I shall replace parts bit by bit. Thanks for your suggestions, gents.
 
Beano said:
Okay....you convinced me. But as I am stingy, I shall buy a pair of secondhand spark coils. :cool:

The setup is similar to a mid-80s Peugeot 505, in that there are spark plug tubes, and long insulators which have rubber plugs which are a very good fit at the top of them.
I have checked these carefully and the rubber plugs at the top seem perfect, and there is no sign of tracking on the insulators, so no sparking across.
But starting with the coils I shall replace parts bit by bit. Thanks for your suggestions, gents.
Click to expand...
Hi - All the best with your plan, no doubt you will let us know the outcome of this.
Cheers.
 
I don't know this engine, so you have to make the judgement if what I am about to say is useful. Read on.

If the setup is not a coil on plug style (which I suspect it isn't based on your description) you can use my method. Hook up a timing light on the spark plug wire(s), take the gun with you in the car and go for a drive. Tape the gun trigger pressed and pointed somewhere you can see the flashes as you drive. Drive the car to the regime where the problem happens. You will see the flashes missing at some point if the problem is where we think it is. Try all spark plug wires like this and you should be able to pinpoint which plug is missing.

What you do next is up to you, but if both plugs on one coil miss at the same time, I would suspect the respective coil or the coil driver if it has a dedicated one.

If only one plug misses, maybe it's the wire on that plug, maybe it's the plug itself.

If no miss happens on any of the plugs, I would bet real money your problem is elsewhere.

At the very least this method will pinpoint which coil/plug/wire is at fault (if any) and help you avoid unnecessary expenditure replacing everything like those mechanics we complain about all the time.

It is important you drive the car to make sure the load on the engine/ignition is the same as when you observed the fault. Revving a stationary car does not place the same load on components. Yes, trying it in gear is also an option but if you're by yourself, it's easier to drive it.

You might want to drive the car when it's a bit dark outside or night even, or maybe through a tunnel, whatever, you get the idea. It's up to you to find the best place and moment so you're not a danger on the road.

PS. No timing light? What the heck is wrong with you?!
 
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Beano said:
2004 Getz misses in damp weather after rain


I have a 2004 Hyundai Getz with only 62,000 Ks, which is a fantastic car in many ways....especially on fuel.:D

It has a very very slight miss in normal operation. So slight that I haven't bothered hunting down the cause. It's more like it's not quite in tune, and I'm used to that after owning a 504 with points ignition. :cool:

During wet weather it's fine, but AFTER wet weather, the damp or condensation causes it to develop a miss which I am sure is electrical, but there appears to be nothing wrong with the leads, spark plug insulators and the way they seal on to the spark plug tubes. I can then drive it all the way across town and is still like that after getting to operating temperature, but after then being then parked for half an hour, it mostly disappears. It's not like one cylinder is not firing....more just a general (but pretty bad) miss at a certain rev range, which disappears when I put my foot right down.. My deduction is that there is a tiny crack in one of the spark coils (there are two) which takes some time to dry out...but I cannot see a crack. Mind you, I can't examine them in situ very well.

Does anyone know if there are any common problems which may also cause this behaviour ? And would you agree that two new coils would fix it ?
Maybe a module ? I tried posting on two Hyundai forums but got no answers.

I don't want to buy coils and then find myself back at square one
Click to expand...
Hi Beano, lift the bonnet and check the no.2 spark plug lead boot for moisture underneath. You will also notice that the windscreen washer spray on the bonnet is directly above that plug and unless the rubber seal is a tight fit that could be your problem and may need a dab of silicone. Check the plugs for colour and condition as well while you are there. Beware of the cheap coils ! Not much cheaper than genuine but ended up putting the origonal old one back in on the one that i was working on. !
 
50 years ago I had a 60 year old E-Type Jag that had problems in the damp and none of the $$$$ 'experts' could figure it out. A workmate with common sense commented that Jaguar being a British car sold in the miserable British climate would not be in business if their cars would not run in the damp. He persuaded me to replace the ignition bits one by one no matter how good they looked and tested. There was a Eureka replacement (the distributor cap) and the venerable 3.8 became 'bullet proof' reliable. I don't suggest it is the cap but if all else fails it is probably the process you might need to follow to fix it. BTW, Alain's #2 plug comment reads as especially interesting.
 
How about spraying all ignition components, one by one, with water using a water squirt bottle? Surely, this would help to isolate the problem part?
 
^^ Thanks, bbg.

^ Great minds think alike, Peter...I have done that, but not properly. Just a bit one day....I think I was busy or distracted. Will try again, properly.
 
PROBLEM SOLVED

I finally got around to buying a pair of spark coils from Ebay, and fitted them. Heaps more power...I hadn't realized what I was missing out on.
Strange thing is that it only seemed to have the tiniest of misses in dry weather.

I feel lucky that I only paid $ 70 . A friend's daughter just had her 4 year old Corolla break down and had it diagnosed (presumably by the RACQ) as faulty coils. They have a coil for each spark plug. She took it to Toyota and they are fixing it for (drum roll)

900 bucks !!!!!!!!! I'd like to see THAT itemised bill.... :rolleyes::eek:


:mallet::whip:
 
I just purchased a coil pack for the c2 here .... $55.00 inc delivery .... Years ago my sister had her renault 19 to mechanics as it would randomly refuse to start and miss. they were talking computers and big $$$ .... You know the "replace everything expensive" and hope it works type caper. My grandfather always says "check the basics, always the basics first". So first thing I did what pull the dizzie cap off....... To find the rotor button pretty much burnt through and the carbon in the center of the dizzie burnt away .... and one very burnt away/worn out dizzie cap. 1 dizzie cap and rotor button later and it was away.

I just did the same thing, I replaced the coils rather than systematically checking error codes and verifying/validating bits as a part of diagnosis on the C2 :clown: So its no surprise the cold start issue its exhibited over the last few weeks is still there :unsure:
 
Individual coils are now fitted to the new Peugeot-Citroen engines, like the Corolla. A full set after market certainly does not cost $900 or anything like it.

And Hyundai can make reliable engines.
 
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