C5 Aisin Warner 6 speed automatic

People have reported mixed results using this oil. I have used it since I changed out the initial oil at 60kkm intervals with no problems and nice smooth changes still at 202kkm. Others also have had no problems. It is important to make sure the oil level is correct in the box and perhaps some problems have been caused by low oil level.

Cheers, Ken
 
Agreed, change oil yearly, I have a 407 with nearly 200K km on it. Time for its next change.
 
Are you just doing a single drain and fill with about 3 litres annually, or multiple ones (each time) to successively get more ATF changed? Surely you wouldn't change it that much each year?

Mine is at nearly 135,000km presumably with original ATF (only recently bought it). I was planning to get 12 litres and do 3-4 drain changes as per this video:

 
I have written about what I have done on a few threads on AF over the last 6 years so do a search and see what others have done and said. I have been doing two empties and refills each change I do as reported earlier. I only seem to get about 2 litres in and out at each change. I also think the full synthetic oil lasts much better than the original oil.

Good Luck with whatever you end up doing.

Ken
 
Hello Ken, I just read your post. I initiated this thread about 7 years ago and at 65 000 ks ! The C5 is now at 134000 ks. The initial enthusiasm after the initial fill oil was replaced did not last all that long. I ended up biting the bullet and replaced the valve body. It has been fault free since. My local auto man did not make any dramas of the change OR make a fuss about what oil to use. Not quite whatever he had at hand but whatever is suitable. These gearboxes were sold to many manufacturers and I find it hard to believe that each factory specified their own friction surfaces and valve materials. If the oil works in an Alfa, Ford, SAAB or Volvo it will be OK in a frog ! I am far more particular about the diesel engine oil ! The Total/Elf has proven to be better. Other low SAPS Enviro labelled engine oils have caused a bit of DPF and limp mode messaging. Forced regeneration was done once or twice. Soft footed city commuting where the engine barely gets a good hot stirring use did it no good at all. I retained the original valve body should anyone want it. Now it gets a bit of spirited heavier footed use it just works better. I suspect the later varieties in X7s may have had better valve/solenoids.
 
JohnW said:
Ouch. Now that's a reason!

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, come to think of it in my case, given that I do love my C-matic.... :(
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I had a CX2400 C-Matic, it was a dog of a car, nearly put me right off Cits 'specially CXs but having said that my Mum has a 1972 DS21 injected with the hydraulic gearshift. Never had a seconds trouble with it, if I was to go back to another earlier Cit it would be either the CX25 gti turbo manual or another BX.
 
electroboy said:
Sadly, that doesn't seem to work too well with these modern 'sealed for life' auto boxes. I've heard of suspiciously too many failures, both with euro ZF boxes and these asian types. Anyone got experience to offer on my question?
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Seems as though the sealed for life trannies aren't really sealed for life. Some Cit owners have discovered that if you remove the inspection bolt you can also drain and fill the transmission with fresh fluid.
 
The trouble is not that you cannot drain the gearbox. The drain plug is easy enough. It also contains a smaller level plug that works on the waterfall principle..... that is used at re filling to get the correct level. It also is not done cold. IIRC 65 degrees C was the recommended temp.
The problem is that the torque converter cannot be drained except at complete disassembly time. So while draining the 'box, the TC stays full.
Hence the reason for the series of multiple part drainings. The torque converter shares the oil supply and therefore holds a couple of litres of contaminated oil.
 
fritzelhund said:
The trouble is not that you cannot drain the gearbox. The drain plug is easy enough. It also contains a smaller level plug that works on the waterfall principle..... that is used at re filling to get the correct level. It also is not done cold. IIRC 65 degrees C was the recommended temp.
The problem is that the torque converter cannot be drained except at complete disassembly time. So while draining the 'box, the TC stays full.
Hence the reason for the series of multiple part drainings. The torque converter shares the oil supply and therefore holds a couple of litres of contaminated oil.
Click to expand...
Hi :)
Yes all true but to keep it in perspective that was always true. Even in the good old drain and change trannys the torque converter retains half the oil. It has been 50 years since they were drainable.
My advice would be to just change the oil once each time but twice as often ! That keeps the additives up to strength and the rubbish low. The important thing is to get the level correct by doing the job correctly with the car leveled safely, and the engine running and the oil medium hot to spec.
Jaahn
 
Did mine today. I put in a Liqui Moly ATF flush fluid at the beginning which supposedly helps clean out the muck (certainly came out very black the first flush). My thinking is after all the flushes there wouldn't be much of that left in. Put in a full 4 litres of ATF for each flush (ran the engine part way through the filling to make sure there was room). Put the top plug back finger tight. Ran the engine changing gears a bit after each fill for about 3-4 minutes to get it all well mixed up. After the last fill put a fresh washer on the drain plug. Checked the temperature in Diagbox was 60 degrees, ran the engine and pulled out the level bolt. Lovely clear red colour. New O-ring on it, put it back in when the ATF started dripping. Bought, but didn't need, a new level plug (various people had said this gets mashed up).

Used a friends 4 post vehicle hoist - lovely toy that. Could be a 'when I get too old to crawl under' purchase.

Haven't driven it enough yet to pick a difference. There wasn't much wrong with it before anyway.

So it was:
4 litres, circulate to mix, drain.
4 litres, circulate to mix, drain.
4 litres, circulate to mix, check ATF temperature, level plug.
Reset ATF count in Diagbox (not easy finding that).

Torque settings:
Top fill plug - Torx 55 - 40Nm
Bottom drain bolt - 17mm hex drive - 50Nm
Level bolt (in the centre of the drain bolt) - Torx (can't remember size, maybe 14) - 8Nm
 
i mashed up my level plug by using the wrong size driver ,i found that a smaller size appears to fit and drive but when turned will rotate and damage the plug ,make sure you have the largest drive you can fit in there before you try and loosen it .pugs
 
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from the dealer:
Level bolt $2.61 Part # 220848
Drain plug washer $9.70 Part # 221923
Level bolt O-ring $3.30 Part # 220945
 
Another discovery - I have a friend with a 2015 120Kw 2 litre C5. The gearbox in it is the AT6 (not the AM6) either due to the increased power & torque over earlier 2 litres, or maybe they just changed all cars after a certain date to this gearbox.

This may affect which fluid is used.
 
The gearbox is not a "poor choice" its the bean counters that skipped fitting any decent oil cooling.The only ones to have dedicated cooler were 605 and XM.That silly heat exchanger only heats oil further and also it perforates silently dumping coolant into trans oil and that is the end.I have developed adapter and have fitted oil coolers to several AM6 and ZF 4HP20s.That is the smartest thing you can ever do.The valve body does not get cooked in boiling oil and lasts longer.Temp drops from 90+ deg C to 60.I use a very high thermal efficiency cooler,fit stainless steel mesh inside bumper and flush the oil 100%.
 
Hi Salman

I own an Xm with a 4HP20. I am very interested in your oil cooler conversion for the 4HP20, but of course at the moment I am not able to bring my car to you. Are you able to supply a kit and instructions for fitting?

Cheers
Alec
 
Done this to my landcruiser power steering and thinking of fitting the tranny cooler to my 407 Aisin AM6, must get awfully cramped in there? Likewise interested in info and or kit, I have seen the adapters for the gearbox and would make changing oil a lot easier, especially as its 100% change.
 
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