C4 Auto Trans Fluid Spec?

Mouka

Member
Tadpole
Tadpole
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May 9, 2023
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Adelaide
Hey Guys - apologies if this has been done to death looking for auto trans specification for 4 speed AL4 gearbox in my 2005 C4 EW10A Petrol. I believe the the trans fluid spec is ATFIII. Can anyone confirm please. Searching comes up with conflicting results. Thanks
 
It's often worth checking the sticky 'Thread of Excellent Threads' at the top of the forum. It contains links to a few AL4 threads. You will also find information about it in the Peugeot context and as the 'DPO' gearbox in Renault.
 
Great thanks for the reply - haver found the complete manual for the box.
 
Great thanks for the reply - haver found the complete manual for the box.
Hi Mouka,
Do not be misled by the original oil recommendation. That was 25 years ago and has not proved to be great oil. Do not waste your time and money trying to buy it. It was being sold at extortinate prices by dealers and others as it was hard to get.
As I have said on here many times i use Penrite multi vehicle full synthetic FS and it has been good. Also Nulon has similar and is good. Both available at all retailers and a good price , even better -25% on special. Renault always recommended a full synthetic in their version of the same box, DPO.
A 4ltr bottle will be enough for a change and there are two different types of drain/level plug style depending on the age. So it could be a bit different to the manual type. NOTE the level check must be done with the car level, on stands, warmed up, WITH THE ENGINE IDLEING. Be careful. Hand hot is ok for temp.
Good luck and ask if you are not sure. Many people have done it regularly OK but some did not read the 'fine print' and had to re-do it again. Change the oil every couple of years and it will reward you with a long life. Forget the oil counter BS.
Jaahn
 
Hi Jaahn - thanks for the insightful information. I am not chasing the Mobil ATF LT71141 fluid. As you say way too expensive and hard to get. Any good quality full synth fluid that meets Dexron III spec is fine for this transmission. I have found the correct procedure for checking oil level and for draining so I am good with all that. About the counter, the manual for the box says this should be reset upon fluid change. Can this be done using standard diagnostic tool or is something more specific required (see below from manual).
Cheers

The (AL4) autoadaptive automatic gearbox is lubricated for life .

All that is required is an oil level check at 60000 km .

Despite that, the automatic gearbox has a system for measuring oil quality .

The AL4 autoadaptive automatic gearbox ECU has an oil wear sensor .

For a given time interval, the counter increases by a certain number of units (of wear) depending on the temperature of the gearbox .

When the counter is exhausted, the gearbox ECU informs the driver of the presence of a fault by the flashing of the Sport and Snow indicator lights on the instrument panel .

Using the diagnostic equipment, the technician checks whether or not it is necessary to replace the gearbox oil .

For any operation requiring a top-up of at least 0,5 litre(s) of gearbox oil, update the oil wear counter by using the diagnostic equipment .
 
Just buy Penrite multi vehicle full synthetic FS always on special, 2 X 4lt will be required as draining uses 2.5lt to 3lt each time, did one last week but I also have 20lt to cover 3 separate cars🫢
 
Forget about the oil counter as you need a clone of the factory tool to do it. i have never done it and the warning has never come on in any of those cars. Just change the oil and sleep easy !
jaahn
 
I will add this extra story for the benefit of future Froggers searching, just to show that using that Penrite FS is not a whim just because it is on special. When i bought my C5 about 15 years ago I looked into the auto oil required, as the consensus even then was the oil needed to be changed to prevent problems with the auto and common sense. I found the Citroen document on the AL4 auto and down loaded it. The ATF LT71141 fluid was expensive and the specs seemed not very special. It was also recommended for some VW autos in the family that I serviced too.

So I bought a 20Lt drum through a Mobil wholesaler for a reasonable cost and I used that regularly for a couple of years in several cars till it ran out. By that time there was more information and experience on these autos and the oils. It was regularly discussed on AFs. I did some general research on alternatives and some brands had bought out the Multi vehicle synthetic oils. So I decided to use them and settled on Penrite FS (I used Penrite engine oils) along with some others on AFs and change it regularly. It seemed suitable and works well. It will not cure an already stuffed transmission or repair broken parts( common with the VWs) but if changed regularly from an early mileage it will usually keep them working for many years, with a solenoid change when the limp mode fault comes. That is common but an easy job and the solenoids are easy to get now too.

The most common problem I have seen on AFs over the years is to convince people to do the oil change correctly as it is described. They say they know what to do but fail to check the level with the engine running ?? Then they have problems because the oil level is too low. Hmm what can I say, but read the instruction and do it right. Actually all autos even with a dip stick are checked with the engine running and warm temp.
Good luck jaahn

PS here is a report back from an AFer years ago about not doing it correctly and had problems;
"The -- mechanic talked me through the oil changes I did, - While I had started the motor and moved through the gears when filling, it seems I didn't properly understand the procedure, which he said is basically: Drain the Oil, fill with 4L, drive it around til 60 degrees, then open the drain plug and let the filler overflow until dripping to set the correct level – with the motor still running. I may have under-filled it by doing it with the motor off." YES he had under-filled it !
 
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Thanks for the war story Jaahn - I tend to agree most ATFs these days are similar in specification. Even Type F would probably work fine. Yes the procedure does state to check the final oil level with box warm and donk running.
 
I tried changing the auto trans oil over the weekend but to my surprise I discovered there is only one drain plug it does not have the second plug with the longer stem for checking the oil level. I unscrewed the single plug and about 1.5 litres of fluid came out. I replaced the same amount with new fluid. Does anyone know what is going on here. Did I somehow miss the second plug? How can I check for correct level?
 
Hex plastic shaft within once outer removed, maybe someone threw it away. I have a couple of spares if required
 
Thanks for the reply - if that was the case I would have expected a lot more fluid to come out - say about 3-4 litres. I only got 1.5 litres. When I removed the bottom drain plug which looks like about 1/2" thread with square drive (exactly the same as top filler plug) the housing looked like there was no provision for a longer shaft inside. Am I missing something? It is a 2005 exclusive 2 litre EW10A petrol 4 speed auto. Does that mean the trans was low on oil if only 1.5 litres came out without the presence of shaft extension?
 
Ok there was another type, when you remove the square drive is there a large hex head still showing on base of gearbox. This was a longer funnel brass/alloy. Only seen it once.

Do you recall even though oil would have been burning hot if once drained could you put your finger in and feel the inside of the sump?

Approx 3lt should pour out. 1.5lt still sounds like there is another measure device.
 
Did this oil change last year on a Scenic & here was the method used as a guide.

DPO Transmission fluid flush & change.
Some do not have the same plug arrangement, so adapt tools etc to suit y'all's transmission


Here is the routine that I would follow next time, on an early Scenic or similar - remove the air to filter tube is necessary.
1. Assemble all you need as far as tools incl. fluid drain container etc. ready to start ~ 10mm square bar & shifter or 3/8" drive to 10mm plug socket for fill plug, 19mm ring or socket & 27mm ring or socket.
2. Get tranny fluid hot & here in this Gold Coast climate its a couple of times around Glen Eagles Drive ~ about 5-6km ~ will get fluid to about 60°C. It was when I measured 1st time & after that I didn't bother
3. 27mm ring spanner or socket ground flat & held tightly in place loosen drain plug & drain the transmission fluid into suitable container. You may wish to also just loosen the 19mm central plug so it is not so tight later.
4. Once drained, I left overnight, replace the 27/19mm plug & tighten
5. Remove the fill plug [10mm square female] inboard 1/2 way, near the selector lever after cleaning this area & tying off all hoses etc. with cable ties to expose the plug.
6. I did this with a 10mm square bar about 300mm long turned with a Crescent shifting wrench.
7. Refill, without spilling, using full container 4l of Penrite Multi Vehicle full synthetic ATF FS Auto trans fluid about $45 trade ~ check on web there are big variances & have Supercheap or any of the big boys price match.
8. Replace top fill plug & bottom plugs for torque & take car for a good warm up, around Glen Eagles a couple of times.
9. Do 3 to 8 again ~ some may do this 3 to 8 twice, but I did not think that necessary in my case.
10. With oil nice & hot again WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING in PARK remove the 19mm central plug & level checker letting excess fluid drain into a suitable container ~ mine was between 500 - 750ml.
11. Don't wait forever just re-install the 19mm plug, tighten up, replace everything & remove cable ties.
12. It's all done after you've checked out on your road test.
This change cost without labour 2 times <$100 3 times <$150 & labour should be about 1.5 hours max. if your chosen mechanic does the job. Much less expensive than running the unit until fail as many transmission places suggest!
 
I know what you mean by the larger hex being the longer tube - no this is not present. The square drive plug is tapped into the casing. I did not feel inside if something else is in there. Even if it was not sure how you would remove it as the hole is only about 1/2". It is weird as if this gearbox never had the provision for measuring tube. Given only 1.5L came out me thinks there must be something else. Also it is the only drain plug on the box no others present.
 
I know what you mean by the larger hex being the longer tube - no this is not present. The square drive plug is tapped into the casing. I did not feel inside if something else is in there. Even if it was not sure how you would remove it as the hole is only about 1/2". It is weird as if this gearbox never had the provision for measuring tube. Given only 1.5L came out me thinks there must be something else. Also it is the only drain plug on the box no others present.
Hi Mouka
There was a change at some point to a different type of drain plug and level tube. I am not certain when and possibly different for different brands. The drain plug is a single plug with a square socket OR a hex socket depending on the brand. The oil will come out immediately but only about 1.5 lt. Then you get a hex key, 8mm I believe, insert the long end up inside the hole and engage the hex in the plastic tube and uncrew that till it comes out. More oil will then come out again and about 1.5 ltr so total of about 3-3.5Ltr. Be aware that you will get hot oil out over your hands both times so do not get the transmission hotter than comfortable.

When the oil has drained and you are ready to refill you replace the plastic tube back up the hole as far as it will go firmly, but not very tight, and fit the plug also. Then refill from the top the full 4 ltr of oil. Start the engine and warm it up, run through the gears etc. for 10 mins IMHO that is enough in normal aussie temperatures. Then WITH THE ENGINE STILL RUNNING remove the plug and let it run till the oil stops running in a stream and starts to drip in spurts, FINISHED, put the plug in and tighten.

The other recommendations are all the same as before, being prepared , have good stands, car level, have your containers etc, and warm the car up before hand till the temp gauge starts up, but not too hot as you will get the hot oil over your hands. The exact temperature is not too important and just too hot to hold your hand on the transmission is good to start IMHO.

https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?threads/al4-dpo-oil-change-and-other-info.145443/
Jaahn
Here are a pic of the new type and the old type level tubes from that AF thread. Note that "new type" of plastic level tube was used on the VW transmissions in the '90s and well known in the trade.
1688433379525.png
1688433427869.png
 
aha OK thanks very much Jaahn - that makes sense the plastic tube must be high up inside (not entirely visible from outside at all). I will drain again and try to locate the plastic tube inside. Once again thanks you da boss.
 
aha OK thanks very much Jaahn - that makes sense the plastic tube must be high up inside (not entirely visible from outside at all). I will drain again and try to locate the plastic tube inside. Once again thanks you da boss.
This is the later setup. Most renault megane and scenic have it too

The 8mm hex is a couple of centimetres up into the hole after the square socket plug is removed ;)

Be careful - it’s nylon and you don’t want to strip it. Just gently nudge it tight when reinstalling, don’t lean on it!
 
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