Assistance with oil leak on Renault 16TS drive shaft

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George4

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Tadpole
Joined
May 29, 2015
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Location
Howlong Australia
I have a manual for my 16TS however it doesn’t cover how to remove a drive shaft
My 16TS has an oil leak where the passenger side drive shaft goes into the gearbox
i assume there must be an oil seal that needs replacing however I can’t find any information on removing the driveshaft and replacing the seal.
Can someone give me some advice or a link that may help.
Regards
Francis
 
Hi Frank, Just be wary of inner joint of drive shaft and not to fully extend it otherwise it can dismantle insie boot which would then require removal of boot and reassemble joint then replace boot.the drive shaft roll pin must be fully removed first before attempting to remove drive shaft from gearbox,the oilseal retaining nut also adjusts the diff side bearing pre load and back lash of diff, so before removing nut it must be marked so as it refits in the exact same position it came from (number of turns of nut and nut position in relation to housing)......just a couple of thoughts.......jim+ Reply to Thread
 
Schlitzaugen
Regarding your comments, the oil leak has returned
You originally suggested I check the diff outdrives for lateral play.
Could you provide some advise on where I could find some information on how to check this
Regards
Frank
 
George4 said:
Schlitzaugen
Regarding your comments, the oil leak has returned
You originally suggested I check the diff outdrives for lateral play.
Could you provide some advise on where I could find some information on how to check this
Regards
Frank
Click to expand...
the diff out drives as described by Schlitz I believe would, be the short splined shafts (which have diff planetary gear on end inside diff carrier) that the drive shaft slides over. also need to check sealing surface on drive shaft where seal runs for damage/wear grooving. also check gearbox breather to make sure it's not blocked..... Jim. .ps to check splined shafts for wear in diff carrier you just need to move inner drive shaft near roll pin area up and down if you can to check for play, this could also detect play at diff side bearing also.
 
oops also forgot there should be a rubber o ring on inner end of splined axle that drive shaft goes over. this is to stop, oil travelling along splines and leaking out at drive shaft pin, so will need to put a good sealant around drive shaft pin before refitting...jim
 
Thanks dacia4X4 Jim - for this information, I will ensure I cover all this when reassembling
I didn’t realise the gearbox had a breather, Where is it located please
Cheers
Frank
 
dacia4x4 said:
oops also forgot there should be a rubber o ring on inner end of splined axle that drive shaft goes over. this is to stop, oil travelling along splines and leaking out at drive shaft pin, so will need to put a good sealant around drive shaft pin before refitting...jim
Click to expand...
The rubber O ring doesn't stop oil but is used as a buffer to stop the drive shaft moving against the driven spline end. On an 18 gearbox this O ring is actually on the outside of the gearbox where there is no oil as the shaft doesn't go into the gearbox like the 16 and 12 boxes.
 
George4 said:
Thanks dacia4X4 Jim - for this information, I will ensure I cover all this when reassembling
I didn’t realise the gearbox had a breather, Where is it located please
Cheers
Frank
Click to expand...
hi frank, breather should be close to selector cover end of gearbox on top. I think about 11mm bolt size with some thin metal cover which can rotate if I remember correctly, been a few years since I have a 16 cogbox just remove breather and see if is clear of blockages....... jim
 
This will help no doubt. I had a box leaking like a sieve go to no leaks @ all?

Renault 17 gearbox help

Hi, A friend of mine has replaced the gearbox in his Renault 17. He notes, that he has two driveshafts with different ends on the gearbox side. Is this the way that they were built? A second problem, which may be related to the first, is that there is oil dripping from the roll pins which...
www.aussiefrogs.com
 
Hi Frank,

this is one of those things not described in manuals. You learn it by messing around with obsolete cars.

The driveshaft end is not really sealed inside the outdrive and because the felt ring seal (which is the only seal in this setup meant to stop g'box oil coming out) is running on the driveshaft tail outer surface, its efficiency in stopping oil depends on how true this d'shaft end is spinning. Needless to say, if the d'shaft end has any slight damage (scratches, scoring, etc) oil will leak. Even if the felt ring is perfect, it will still leak a bit. Maybe a brand new one soaked in oil running on a factory fresh d'shaft tail with perfect surface finish will not leak, but given how difficult it is to access and replace, I would say most people don't bother.

So most people just let them leak and keep an eye on the g'box oil level. The resulting mess protects everything from rust.

Now.

There is another way these things leak. As mentioned earlier, oil can crawl up the splines and come out at the roll pin. This can be easily sealed as pointed out above with silicone but again, you decide if it's worth the bother.

The little o ring inside the d'shaft tail is not meant to prevent this type of leak, it is there to provide a bit of a buffer when the d'shaft is pushing against the outdrive (say the suspension is bouncing up and down on a rough road or whatever) and it may shear the pin.

Okay.

Back to play in the driveshaft.

Jim (I think) explained above how to check for play.

You need to take the d'shaft off and grab the outdrive end (the male splined thingie poking out of the g'box) and try to wobble it around (up down, fore aft, all the way about; not in/out - that is checking for play in the gear cluster). If you feel an undeniable wobble, it wobbles. If you are starting to doubt your sanity and question your existence, it does not wobble (or not enough).

If it does wobble around, it's not good. That thing is running inside a boss cast in the diff cluster (satellites plus sun gears) carrier (or diff body if you want) in a plain bearing machined to a close tolerance at the factory. Well, after 50 odd years this bearing surface can wear out. When that happens, the outdrive (which is basically the tail of the sun gear) can wobble around for whatever reason (mainly vibrations induced by the driveshaft, I imagine, but also forces transmitted by the drive torque applied by the satellites) and that means it will push unevenly around inside the felt seal. Easy to see then how oil can work its way out around the d'shaft tail it's supposed to run on.

I don't think it matters if the outdrive is worn or the carrier bore is worn. Either way, you should replace both and that's not gonna happen. Well, unless you find a car that was crashed the day after it left the factory and still has the g'box.

Not sure what the next best thing to do is, probably live with the leak. Until other things go bad. I had a R12 where this play was so bad it vibrated the wheel at certain speeds like an unbalanced wheel, you know what that's like. That bad. Leaked g'box oil like a champ. Still worked fine and I never fixed it. Drove the car for about 10 years like that.
 
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