AL4 shifting problems after fluid change

Ps tazfrog you can reach the filter inside the AL4 unless the whole box is removed from the car and split open. Its a huge task.

Just fresh oil is all you can do if the solenoids have slready been replaced.

The valve body can be removed from behind the front cover and can be stripped and cleaned if you're keen but I found no benefit as I was chasing a different type of fault.

All the best. .

Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app
 
Shift problems related to ATF viscosity?

Hi Guys,

I have a 307 2.0L XSE AL4 robo-auto gearbox, 2006, 130k.The AL4 has been dodgy for some time and I have done many things to try to fix the problem. This is a common problem with this car. My mechanic now comes to me for advice! (which is sell the car quick, but mine has grown on me).

The gear changes are all good, except for when hot and coming to a stop. When hot, the box almost never drops back into 1st. It's either in a higher gear (at least 3rd) or neutral, I'm not sure which. When you go to accelerate away it slams into gear and the engine tries to climb out the front of the car (I've had to have engine mounts replaced).

I'm used to it and can feel when it hasn't dropped into 1st, so I either gently tweak the accelerator a couple of times (when on the flat) or manually put into into 2nd (when going uphill). It's now second nature to me, but anyone who borrows it, comes back in tears (the rolling backwards when stopped on a hill in commuter traffic is scary enough, but the slam into gear is the icing on the cake... or the PP on the seat).

What I have done:
1) I got a full flush and change done at about 90K (Lubemobile mobile mechanic. They say they do a full flush, but I'm not sure how, and then replace). That did significantly reduce the problem. I don't remember what the ATF was.
2) My mechanic replaced the ATF with Nulon at my request to see if that had an effect. The change was for good, but not permanent and since then I conclude it was the change, not the Nulon.
3) After years of diagnosis I determined that the problem only occurs when the transmission gets hot. In summer, as soon as the car thermostat hits 90 degC the problem kicks in. In winter it's less obvious, because the engine doesn't get hot, so the thermostat doesn't hit 90, but the transmission has been worked hard, so is clearly hot.
4) My mechanic suggested adding an intercooler to the transmission. The boxes have a tiny cooling exchanger. My conclusion is that they are designed for Europe, not Australia. However, it's not possible to do this without some serious mods. He chickened out at that stage.
5) He did replace two solenoids which are apparently known to cause a similar problem and did a full flush and change while at it. This had negligible affect. Probably what I would have expected from an ATF change.
6) Stayed away from the Peugeot dealer service. These guys are both expensive ("we recommend a full transmission rebuild in Melbourne at a cost of $3000 plus freight" and often incompetent. Good lead mechanics, but they are now "customer relations managers" and the "techs" are often apprentices. They last straw was when the "technician" offered to top up the windscreen fluid as I was picking it up and opened the hydraulic fluid with a watering can in his hand (I kid you not).

My conclusion is that the problem is fluid viscosity related. When the AL4 gets hot, it behaves badly.

Just changing the viscosity to a higher one to compensate is likely to cause other problems at lower temperature (any experience here?) which is why the OEMs a very strict about what ATF to use.

Some digging shows that the Penrite and most others like it have specs like this:
40 degC viscosity: 36 cSt
100 degC viscosity: 7.4 cSt
Viscosity Index: 178
Brookfield viscosity at -40: 13,000 cSt

So what I think I want is an ATF with the same 40 degC viscosity, but a higher 100 degC viscosity.

Mobil ATF 320 has a higher viscosity at 100 degC (8.2 cSt), but I cannot find it's 40 degC viscosity. The Brookfield viscosity at -40 is higher than the Penrite etc (17,900 vs 13,000), so I presume its 40 deg viscosity is also higher.

Any experience with Mobil ATF 320 in the AL4?
What about other ATFs?

Bob
 
Last edited:
Wow, that lost all the formatting! I've edited to reinstate the formatting otherwise it was a 3217 character Twitter message!
 
Last edited:
Depending in how many kms on the clock I would recommend replacing the narrow heat exchanger with the thicker 44mm unit. A new longer bolt will be required.
There is a recent Renault owner that went down this path with success in the short term I haven't any recent replies.


Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app
 
So a couple of things going on here.

1/ You have a genuine repair required for your gearbox and no amount of oil changing is going to fix it.

2/ You do a full flush (changing the oil multiple times) and not just a single drain and fill that most mechanics would do which only changes about 1/3 of the oil. You use a type of oil which doesn't confirm with the PSA LT71141 standard - basically telling the PSA engineers that they don't know how to specify an oil. You might get lucky in your situation and find a different oil works for your gearbox.

I'm thinking most people er on the cautious side and go with the PSA spec LT71141 - there are quite a few choices of oil which conform to that spec. If you choose an oil which is outside that spec you're basically on your own.

There are just so many reported issues with the AL4 that I find it difficult to believe that an oil spec change is what's required. PSA made these things for so long it's amazing that if the issue was simply oil spec that they didn't issue a service item to change the oil to a different spec.

Either way they don't make AL4's anymore so the world is a better place !

Cheers

Justin
 
Last edited:
Driving an auto that’s smashing into and out of gear is going to damage the rest of what is a fragile box seem to see this same problem with al4 repairs people try xyz but don’t do the basic right


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Well if you have p06 and you have done valves and the oil level is correct that’s the only way forward cheaper than more engine mounts


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
dmccurtayne said:
Driving an auto that’s smashing into and out of gear is going to damage the rest of what is a fragile box seem to see this same problem with al4 repairs people try xyz but don’t do the basic right
Click to expand...

So how is that done? A complete rebuild? To replace what? Everything? The AL4 has numerous issues, but mine works well except when it's hot. Doesn't that tell you something?
 
N5GTi6 said:
You use a type of oil which doesn't confirm with the PSA LT71141 standard - basically telling the PSA engineers that they don't know how to specify an oil. You might get lucky in your situation and find a different oil works for your gearbox.
Click to expand...

There seem to be a range of oil viscosity that meet the spec. If you look at the spec sheets they vary. What I'm suggesting is a subtle change of high temperature viscosity. For example the Nulon is lower viscosity than the Penrite.
 
Also, the other thing that makes me suspect viscosity is that it gets slowly worse with time. Maybe that's the additives slowly breaking down and lowering the viscosity.
 
HAL2100 said:
So how is that done? A complete rebuild? To replace what? Everything? The AL4 has numerous issues, but mine works well except when it's hot. Doesn't that tell you something?
Click to expand...

What fault code (s) do you have
Every one thinks they can patch up these with a haphazard approach it can’t be done I’ve been working on these since they came out in the 306 there is a specific approach to diagnose them people waste there time and money doing anything else if you had a slip fault the dealer has every right to tell you to replace the box other wise you would come back winging that something else failed because the slip creates more crap in the oil and more blocked valves

Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Last edited:
No fault codes except when the box get's a nasty thump and drops into 'limp home' mode and that hasn't happened for years since I learned how to adapt.

This is why this is a problem. It's not an obvious fault. Replacing the solenoids was a default option based on no other information. Luckily my mechanic treats me well and did not charge me much for that, but it was till more than I was happy spending.
 
dmccurtayne said:
because the slip creates more crap in the oil and more blocked valves
Click to expand...

As I pointed out earlier on in the thread, the problem only occurs at high temperature and was still there immediately after the solenoids were replaced and the ATF changed. From that, I concluded that it's not blocked valves (and not solenoids, 'cos they were replaced).
 
When it goes into limp mode it will log a code need to know what codes you had or do a line pressure test and recreate the fault with a gauge not the diagnostic tool. If you have good pressure to the gear train then you have a mechanical fault it’s not rocket surgery. Pretty sure I didn’t say the valves are still at fault.


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
It's been a couple of years since any codes were logged. I need to see him soon for another car, so I'll talk to him about this. He's pretty good, ex-BMW, and is patient with me, but he's not familiar with the Peugeot. It's a puzzle he'd like to solve too.
 
HAL2100 said:
As I pointed out earlier on in the thread, the problem only occurs at high temperature and was still there immediately after the solenoids were replaced and the ATF changed. From that, I concluded that it's not blocked valves (and not solenoids, 'cos they were replaced).
Click to expand...
Hi, I've got exactly the same issue and just replaced fluids and solenoids, which did not resolve it. Did you end up finding a solution? I know this thread is 4 years old, but I'm hopeful!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top