A110 1796 cc upgrade

Bustamif

Member
I am considering going to 1796 forged pistons and steel liners on my 841/843 engine plus some bigger valves and a warmer cam.
Anyone had any issues with the 1796 upgrade ? any problems with the base of the liners which seem pretty thin ?
 

Steve K

Member
Use modern lightweight pistons with short skirts and compact rings, long con rods,
Shorten the custom liner bases and glue them in.....
 

JohnW

Too many posts!
Use modern lightweight pistons with short skirts and compact rings, long con rods,
Shorten the custom liner bases and glue them in.....
Do you have a "get them out again" method for the glued liners out of interest?
 

Frans

1000+ Posts
Yes Bustamif, I have done one a few times. Built and refreshed.
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Bustamif

Member
The liners in the big motor for the Lotus were glued in, very reliable.
From the smiles on the faces (almost two) in Frans photos, I assume he is saying there are no inherent problems with 1796 liners.
Nauli, the budget does not include fuel injection, I could afford it if the Lotus/Renault found a serious buyer. Its getting a freshen up with routine maintenance at the moment with new clutch and brake master cylinders and a new lightweight Tilton double plate race clutch to replace the AP.
 
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Steve K

Member
Building a "fat" engine is quite involved with a lot of trickery.
Too much to go into here.
Having a great deal of engine building experience is a good start.
But you have to think outside the square.. or block...

Having been disappointed by quality issues of some goods from
some OS suppliers, I turned to local sources where competent
operators are a known quantity.
e.g. which part of these cylinder liners do you want us to match
the pistons to?? The oval top, the barrelled middle, the tapered top,
or the tuliped skirt?

So, Bustamif, do exactly what you are doing here and ask a lot of
questions.
 
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Bustamif

Member
Building a "fat" engine is quite involved with a lot of trickery.
Too much to go into here.
Having a great deal of engine building experience is a good start.
But you have to think outside the square.. or block...

Having been disappointed by quality issues of some goods from
some OS suppliers, I turned to local sources where competent
operators are a known quantity.
e.g. which part of these cylinder liners do you want us to match
the pistons to?? The oval top, the barrelled middle, the tapered top,
or the tuliped skirt?

So, Bustamif, do exactly what you are doing here and ask a lot of
questions.
I went through all that drama with liners getting the Lotus reliable at over 1900 cc when the new liners were bell shaped exactly as you describe. It took a lot of work and a long time to get to a reliable over 2 litre 807 engine. I don't have the time or inclination for a major engine project on a street car used for occasional track days. I have a spare 841/843 1647 motor that is the same base motor as what's in the car. The existing motor is OK but is getting older and has a few new oil leaks. I was just looking at a little more capacity than the 1647 cc, better quality pistons, more compression and slightly bigger cam. I was hoping for a simple 1700cc upgrade without too much drama.
 

dauphproto

Member
I had an 1800 years ago, when first built we used a slight interference fit and Loctite which worked on Hillman Imps, but not the Renault. I am pretty sure the block moves a fair bit when hot, meaning that using Renault's normal clearance fit and a good flexible sealant was a better proposition. Liner protrusion is also vital as the liners do hammer out the block through time, meaning it is a good idea to use plenty of protrusion to begin with. The engine is still around today, but has had liner sealing issues which are as much down to how it was not looked after as anything else.
 

GavinT

New member
Here's an 1800cc engine, using Honda liners and o-rings rather than sealing at the base.

You'll have to excuse my French!

http://nanard289.unblog.fr/presentation/les-chemises-du-1800-encore-sans-pantalon/
Yes, Darton Sleeves also make Honda 81mm liners like those.
A nice tidy 1730cc's.

If it's of interest, I had Clive from Wade Cams make a master of the Renault Sport East Africa Safari cam years ago. That was for the 1800 engines.
With all the changes that went on re Wade Cams, I presume he still has it.
 

Bustamif

Member
After looking at the liner sealing issues I am reluctant to proceed with all the machining work on block and liners and still have a high risk of liner seal and distortion issues leading to unreliability.

Since it is a road car used for occasional track work I am now considering 79 mm bore, 1647 cc, with forged pistons. Some work on the combustion chamber to get apx 10.5 comp ratio and a more aggressive cam profile, but not too much lift. Either from Clive Cams or Cat, something that works from about 4,500 rpm to 7200 rpm.

I now have most of the bits I need, bigger valves, H beam rods, new alloy baffled sump, big oil pump, gaskets, seals and assorted bits. Will shortly commit to pistons, liners, cam, valve springs and headers.

Most of the ancillaries, clutch, ignition carbs etc will swap over from the existing engine.
 

Bustamif

Member
They are an improvement over the Mecaparts ones, mainly due to the different dimensions at the base of the liners.
I had sent Salv an email aver a month ago but no reply, assumed he was not doing them any more.
I will follow him up again before I make a final decision.
Thanks Fireblade
 
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