807-03 engine into r12

JohnW said:
Are you linked up with Club Automobile Francaise? There is at least one Adelaide member who knows these vehicles extraordinarily well.
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Hi yes I will be asking for all the advice any where I can get🙂

schlitzaugen said:
Which engine are you asking about? You refer to both R16 and R15/17 just before the question hence unclear.

If you're asking about the R15/17 engines, they almost never came attached to 5sp gearboxes in these cars, 17TS and 17G are the only exceptions. The clutch bell housing is the same, and it is the same with the 395 'box bellhousing found on R18 (which is a five speeder, by the way, but not close ratio). Using one however means you'll need the associated clutch cable stop, because the lever on the 395 ex R18 is longer than that on R17/R15 so make sure you get that too.

Dunno if the R16 bell housing can be used.
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Yeah thanks. I was asking which box was fitted to the 15 and 17.

So it's sounding to me that the 15 and 17 shared the same gearbox with different bellhousing?
So my best option would be to find one of these bellhousings and that should just about do it.

Also the R18 bellhousings is this the same also despite going to a 5spd box.
Or if going down that route maybe getting the whole R18 box and running gear would be a better option though maybe a bigger project

It sounds like there might be a few on here wanting to know the outcome here🙂🙂
 
Rory said:
Hi yes I will be asking for all the advice any where I can get🙂



Yeah thanks. I was asking which box was fitted to the 15 and 17.

So it's sounding to me that the 15 and 17 shared the same gearbox with different bellhousing?
So my best option would be to find one of these bellhousings and that should just about do it.

Also the R18 bellhousings is this the same also despite going to a 5spd box.
Or if going down that route maybe getting the whole R18 box and running gear would be a better option though maybe a bigger project

It sounds like there might be a few on here wanting to know the outcome here🙂🙂
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Yeap, same bellhousing on 15 and 17, but be careful. There was a 15 model (TL? whatever, the base model), which had the R12 engine. That one doesn't have the bellhousing you're after. It's the only exception and I don't think there were many sold here, but worth knowing.

R18 running gear doesn't fit, the g'box has longer outdrives by 1cm per side, so you need shorter driveshafts. The rest doesn't fit either so not worth it. The driveshafts can be found over in Europe, but not that easy. People here have still used 5 speed R18 'boxes but it is a bit more work to shorten driveshafts and whatnot. Suspension is not worth it.
 
schlitzaugen said:
Yeap, same bellhousing on 15 and 17, but be careful. There was a 15 model (TL? whatever, the base model), which had the R12 engine. That one doesn't have the bellhousing you're after. It's the only exception and I don't think there were many sold here, but worth knowing.

R18 running gear doesn't fit, the g'box has longer outdrives by 1cm per side, so you need shorter driveshafts. The rest doesn't fit either so not worth it. The driveshafts can be found over in Europe, but not that easy. People here have still used 5 speed R18 'boxes but it is a bit more work to shorten driveshafts and whatnot. Suspension is not worth it.
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The R15 TL Was not sold in Australia, i have only seen one which was a private import by the owner.
 
Rory said:
Hi yes I will be asking for all the advice any where I can get🙂



Yeah thanks. I was asking which box was fitted to the 15 and 17.

So it's sounding to me that the 15 and 17 shared the same gearbox with different bellhousing?
So my best option would be to find one of these bellhousings and that should just about do it.

Also the R18 bellhousings is this the same also despite going to a 5spd box.
Or if going down that route maybe getting the whole R18 box and running gear would be a better option though maybe a bigger project

It sounds like there might be a few on here wanting to know the outcome here🙂🙂
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The R18 running gear (motor & transaxle) can be used but you will need to do some modifications:

1) Change the out drives in the transaxle
2) Extend the transmission hump
3) Modify the transaxle mounts
4) there will be a few other things to do such as gear selector, exhaust, wiring etc
 
There are quite a few ways to put 807, 841, 843 engines into an R12 each has its pros & cons. The simplest is to get a whole car R15TS, R17TL, R17TS, and use the drive train, brakes, suspension, exhaust.

My current R12 wagon has a whole drive train from a R17TL, also used brakes and some suspension parts.

All the other methods such as R16 & R18 you will need to do a lot more work and sourcing parts.

I'm in the middle of putting an NG3 transaxle into an R12. There is quite a few things that need to be modified and sourced, but it is getting there slowly.
 
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COL said:
The R18 running gear (motor & transaxle) can be used but you will need to do some modifications:

1) Change the out drives in the transaxle
2) Extend the transmission hump
3) Modify the transaxle mounts
4) there will be a few other things to do such as gear selector, exhaust, wiring etc
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Changing the outdrives is not a simple exercise. The seals and the diff adjuster nuts that house them are different and the g'box casings are too, so swapping the lot around doesn't work. Using a 352 casing to get around the problem just creates other problems so not as easy as it sounds.

There was talk around here about a 395 'box with the 352 style seals/diff adjusters but I have never seen one. I have seen many of the other style.

The five speed g'box munts are the easiest to make, ideally you would have some spares off a 365 (R17G/TS) to copy. Failing that, just cut the ordinary 352 bracket and modify that (add a couple of pick-up points to bolt it to the side of the g'box). Keep in mind, the 365 requires some rubber mounts and brackets that attach to the chassis rails too (apart from the brackets that bolt to the 'box), and the mounts themselves are expensive. Still available from Mecaparts and possibly others.

I looked at these mods and even considered a NG3 swap (I went as far as having new seal carrier/diff adjuster rings made to suit) for a long time and in the end I gave up. It is not impossible, but hardly worth the effort. Eventually (I wasn't working against time) I sourced all the parts I needed off a 17TL plus a 395 'box off a R18 plus short driveshafts from Europe but the swap never happened for other reasons and everything was sold off eventually.
 
The 15/17 807 engines you are looking for will have the code 807-10, 807-11, 807-12, 807-13 or the R12G with 807-20. I don't know the 841 and 843 nos. There has to be some 15/17 wrecks out there somewhere, although I admit I haven't seen one in some time. I did see an R18 manual wreck that would be available in Brisbane recently. About wrecks being out there, I was told of 5 x R12, some R16 and R18 cars/wrecks in Mackay, so these things do come up from time to time.
 
So what I'm hearing is, we are 20yrs too late, turbocharger the engine you have, profit.
 
bowie said:
So what I'm hearing is, we are 20yrs too late, turbocharger the engine you have, profit.
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Haha I'm feeling we are in the same boat hear. Looks like you even have the same Sungold yellow 12!

Yeah ideally I would have collected all the parts when they were plentiful.

It is seeming that possibly if I wish to continue a whole R18 wreck or transaxle might be an option. This would bolt up to the 807.
Alternately using the 352 gearbox. Still unsure if this is a possible outcome?? Sorry all I'm not too familiar with all the models and differences.

Yes the 15/17 rout would be ideal but I have not seen one available in the time I have been looking and am not going to consider wrecking something nice!

So if there is a bellhousings to suit the 807 into 352 gearbox let me know and that would be a great first step
 
Do this :D


If only for the anti-lag and shooting fireballs in front of the passenger hahahah!
 
Rory said:
Haha I'm feeling we are in the same boat hear. Looks like you even have the same Sungold yellow 12!

Yeah ideally I would have collected all the parts when they were plentiful.

It is seeming that possibly if I wish to continue a whole R18 wreck or transaxle might be an option. This would bolt up to the 807.
Alternately using the 352 gearbox. Still unsure if this is a possible outcome?? Sorry all I'm not too familiar with all the models and differences.

Yes the 15/17 rout would be ideal but I have not seen one available in the time I have been looking and am not going to consider wrecking something nice!

So if there is a bellhousings to suit the 807 into 352 gearbox let me know and that would be a great first step
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The R18 let's call it "big block" because I don't know the number designation due to typical Renault foggy number logic is very similar (bugger all differences and on the outside you'd be excused to confuse the two) to the 807 class block. So yes, the bellhousing will fit. Differences are not there. If you want to nit pick, the differences are inside in the cylinder liner seat, plus there may be some external differences in how many bosses are cast and tapped, etc, but these things differ between different versions of the 807 engines (R16 blocks included) too so no biggie.

These are the only bellhousing sources I know of (R16, 18, 15, 17). Never mind the 12G. It is possible some other sources exist but I am not sure you may find them here (I am mainly thinking early small engine R20/Fuego Turbo, things like that).
 
schlitzaugen said:
The R18 let's call it "big block" because I don't know the number designation due to typical Renault foggy number logic is very similar (bugger all differences and on the outside you'd be excused to confuse the two) to the 807 class block. So yes, the bellhousing will fit. Differences are not there. If you want to nit pick, the differences are inside in the cylinder liner seat, plus there may be some external differences in how many bosses are cast and tapped, etc, but these things differ between different versions of the 807 engines (R16 blocks included) too so no biggie.

These are the only bellhousing sources I know of (R16, 18, 15, 17). Never mind the 12G. It is possible some other sources exist but I am not sure you may find them here (I am mainly thinking early small engine R20/Fuego Turbo, things like that).
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Ok so if I find a bell housing from an R16 or an R18 that would mount to my gearbox?

In that case has anyone on here got one to sell?

or are they rarer again and I'll wait for something at a wrecking yard, may be a long wait at best.
 
I’ll swap you a spare R17 bell housing for a R12 one if you cover the postage. Pm me
 
Rory said:
Ok so if I find a bell housing from an R16 or an R18 that would mount to my gearbox?

In that case has anyone on here got one to sell?

or are they rarer again and I'll wait for something at a wrecking yard, may be a long wait at best.
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The only difference as mentioned above is in the clutch cable bracket and lever, but if you get a complete R17 bellhousing all that is avoided.

One might say why not use one or the other, mix and match? Well, the R18 clutch cable has more travel, which I guess is reflected at the pedal so be careful if you mix and match. No idea about R16, you'll need to do your own research. The 17 pedals are pretty much the same as 12 save some cosmetic differences but in travel, leverage, etc., there's no difference.

The R16 bellhousing should fit, but have a look at the clutch cable bracket and mechanism (lever/shaft/fork), because all of that comes attached to the bellhousing. R16 has a smaller clutch and am not sure how much travel you need at the fork and how that is achieved so you need to check if it would work with R17 clutch.
 
This is a very confusing veen diagram. :p

Jensen, I thought C.less was using a R16 bell housing in the back of thing of his?.. Wait that doesnt make sense.
 
Steve K said:
16 bellhousing will not fit the R12 gearbox as it misses out on the recesses to clear the crownwheel.
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You can do it if carefully grind out a hole slot R12 box taking great care with main gearshaft oil seal then, manufacture an aluminum cover to weld on inside of gearbox then sealed with expoxy resin. Worked well in my motorkhana special. R16 front reversed on to R10 with R12 box so all going 4 forward gears and reverse. Used an offset pivot point to increase clutch throw.
 

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