505Gti engine/gearbox swap info?

[4WDrift]

Can anyone point me towards a thread where replacing a Series One 505Gti motor and Auto box with an XN Motor and 5 speed has been discussed?

Just wanting to find out the main things to be aware of and perhaps any tips or advice from someone who has done the swap before...

 

[Ian Blair]

Engine gearbox swap

Hi
I have converted a 505 86 model SRI wagon auto with 2 litre XN7 engine to a manual with a BA10 gearbox
A few headaches at the rear of the gearbox but result was great with a high 5th gear for cruising- better than Gti
A BA7 box is easier due to the rear mount but probably harder to find gearbox

Are you trying to do this in a sedan or wagon ?

The Gti2.2 litre would go better motorwise compared XN7 2litre motor although the XN motor apart from the horrible K -Jettronic is much easier to work on compared with the 2.2 ZDJL with LE-2 injection
I am the middle of retiming my GTi ZDJL with much problem because its so hard to work on the distributor when its all together after replacing the water pump- I replaced the timing belt 6 mnths ago and have had to go through it all again and the Haynes manual seems to miss out on where to set the distributor when fitting the timing belt !!!!
A XN out of a 504 with Kugelfisher mech injection would not go as well but be the best to work on

For performance I would use a ZDJL with BA10 box but that would be the hardest conversion in a wagon:banana:
For ease of conversion a XN1 with BA7 box the easiest but the least performance:headbang:

If I can add any more info to help let me know
Ian

 

[505 to the max]

Can anyone point me towards a thread where replacing a Series One 505Gti motor and Auto box with an XN Motor and 5 speed has been discussed?

Just wanting to find out the main things to be aware of and perhaps any tips or advice from someone who has done the swap before...

Gearbox is pretty easy, but the slave cylinder is different so you'll need to change that. IIRC the clutch is different too, but I could be wrong. Besides that the gearbox is a straight swap.

As for the engine it's not so simple. The mechanical side of things shouldn't be too complicated, but you'll basically have to transfer the wiring loom, or splice one into the other. The heater hoses are different, the engine mounting points are 'engine specific', the radiators are different, your aircon will have to be dismantled, and the fuel pump will have to be ditched because of the XN motor not requiring an electric pump.

It's not "let's put a V12 into a mini" complicated, but does require some thought. I did the opposite of what you're thinking of here, and it took me a lot of Saturdays. If I had the chance (nee funding) to do it again I'd borrow another 505 to follow as a guide.

Why the swap if I may ask?

 

[Demannu]

I am the middle of retiming my GTi ZDJL with much problem because its so hard to work on the distributor when its all together after replacing the water pump- I replaced the timing belt 6 mnths ago and have had to go through it all again and the Haynes manual seems to miss out on where to set the distributor when fitting the timing belt !!!!

I made the same mistake about 3 years ago replacing head on one of these engines in-situ. I ended up with the auxiliary shaft all up shite creek. BUT there is a way around it. Measure how far out your ignition timing is and in which direction, then remove the distributor, then with a pair of needle nosed pliers, remove the distributor drive gear from the motor (it actually sits on the end of the oil pump drive shaft). Rotate it around the angle by which your ignition timing is out in the opposite direction. Put it back into the housing, then refit the distributor. You'll then be able to do your timing correctly, and off you go!

For performance I would use a ZDJL with BA10 box but that would be the hardest conversion in a wagon

If you can find a bell housing to match the ZDJL engine to the BA10 gearbox, I'll take 2. They never came out in Australia, though NZ did get some in the early 2 litre STi. They were also avaliable in the Talbot Tagora, but I haven't seen many of them getting around recently either.

Can anyone point me towards a thread where replacing a Series One 505Gti motor and Auto box with an XN Motor and 5 speed has been discussed?

Just wanting to find out the main things to be aware of and perhaps any tips or advice from someone who has done the swap before...

Chances are that your 5 speed gearbox is a BA10/5. 85% of the 5 speed XN gearboxes in Australia are. If you are installing into a sedan, apart from engine mounts, exhaust, throttle and choke cable, heater hoses, radiators and hoses, and the obvious gear linkages and clutch setup (you need a different brake pedal), it will be fairly straightforward. If it's a wagon, you've got the rear gearbox mount to contend with. If you have managed to find a BA7/5 speed, the rear gearbox mount is no problem, it bolts straight in.

You'll need to do a couple of other fiddly things like short out the neutral/park starter interlock wiring and seperate the reversing light wiring, install a clutch master cylinder, resevoir and hose, and of course engine bay wiring. Most of the GTi wiring will become superfluous, except for the coolant temp sensor, oil pressure switch and ignition wire. You may also have to install a regulator for your alternator, depending on what alternator you have on your XN motor. All GTi's had internal regulators. If your XN does not have power steering, you will have to get new brackets and hoses for between the pump and the rack. Also, although the power steering resevoir bottle is the same, the XN needs a bracket to hold it.

Overall, if you were fitting an XN and 5 speed from a later (84 - 85) 505 SR, it should be relatively straightforward. If this is an early GR 5 speed and box, you could be up for some heartache and long nights.

 

[4WDrift]

Thanks for the info guys.

Why the swap if I may ask?

I'm swapping because I want the combo of GTi handling and the simplicity of repair/upkeep of the old motor - I miss the days where I could climb in to the engine bay of my old HR to work on something!!

I am forced to do the swap earlier than planned as the Auto started smoking when I pointed her up a steep hill... it had been dying for a while though.

Increased efficiency and less revs at cruising speed, and basically the extra control a manual gives me for cornering.

I'm not really concerned at the drop in power, the GTi is a slug in the performance stakes anyway. Once they are wound up they are OK, and it won't be too much different with the old slant once it's cruisin'.

 

[dieseldo]

Greetings froggers as the conversion (3 speed auto to BA10 ) is one I would'nt tackle could one of you
experienced 505 owners give an approximate number of hours this would take a workshop to complete..

The back ground is.. I am collecting a 505 STI tomorrow ,my mate Bill has organised the purchase.
He states ( having owned over a dozen 505's that this is one of the best ! ) and with only 130,000 kms
is too good to pass up . Having experienced an aging wagon 3 speed previously I have concerns
I will find this experience underwhelming
Many thanks
Brian

 

[DeeCee]

Pardon me......but wash your mouth out with soap! I also own a 505 STi with 3 speed auto. Once its 'personality quirks'
were identified and removed it has turned into a wonderful ,reliable ,cruiser that I would not hesitate to drive anywhere. At only 170,000 klicks and formerly a genuine one owner ve-hickle I expect to have it for quite a few years to come. I expect it will outlast me ............. but that's my kids' problem!! �� Good luck in enjoying your comfortable beastie, particularly the best , smoothest suspension yet put under a road car. AND.........convert nothing! (Leave that to the malcontents who secretly lust after GT HO's. �&#56618

 

[Beano]

I agree. The 3 speed auto is a wonderful gearbox and very long-lasting. Often 505s go to the wreckers with that original gearbox....as long as the correct oil (Dextron 2 or equivalent) is used and changed regularly.

I used to think that autos were for old men, and then bought a 505 three speed auto. They grow on you and you just don't feel like fanging them around....the suspension and gearbox seem to be tuned together and they are such a pleasure to drive.
Don't be put off if you had a negative experience with a wagon 3 speed. The sedans are rather different...

 

[dieseldo]

Thank you gentlemen I value your input and will approach the ownership with relish..

An update of my coming blissful experience will follow.. :headbang:ugplak: