505 Power Steering Pump Seal

baldrick56

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OK I'm repeating a thread posted a little while back - for context:

As part of the fight to get to the cambelt on my 505 GTi recently I've had to loosen off the power steering pump & remove the veebelt which was nicely soaked in ATF. There's a small but steady drip from the "input" shaft into the pump behind the pulley. I'm now in that dangerous territory of "while I'm here I might as well ....." The backstory to this is that about four years back the local-at-the-time garage discovered a leak from the same place - they removed the pump, stripped it down, and told me they'd replaced an "O ring." Remember thinking at the time that an 'O' ring didn't seem very hi-tech for the job it has to do. Does anyone know if there's a proper lipped seal on the front end of the pump? - better still a reference number?
Thanks,
Rob
 
OK I'm repeating a thread posted a little while back - for context:

As part of the fight to get to the cambelt on my 505 GTi recently I've had to loosen off the power steering pump & remove the veebelt which was nicely soaked in ATF. There's a small but steady drip from the "input" shaft into the pump behind the pulley. I'm now in that dangerous territory of "while I'm here I might as well ....." The backstory to this is that about four years back the local-at-the-time garage discovered a leak from the same place - they removed the pump, stripped it down, and told me they'd replaced an "O ring." Remember thinking at the time that an 'O' ring didn't seem very hi-tech for the job it has to do. Does anyone know if there's a proper lipped seal on the front end of the pump? - better still a reference number?
Thanks,
Rob
And now the reply I was looking for:

Yes there is a lipped seal - its an "IPC 7808195" bad news is that doesn't seem to be available any more - good news is there's a substitute which is a "CR7475" (CR seems to stand for "Chicago Rawhide"), picked mine up from Applied today - just got to get the old one out now.
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PS Anyone got any recommendations for getting the pulley-hub back on the shaft? I used a hydraulic press to push the shaft out but if I just turn it over and press on the back of the pump I'm imagining its just going to crumple like something on that pointless youtube channel that crushes things in hydraulic presses for 'fun.'
 
Thanks PCoates, might work only it does say that its for pulley hubs 28 - 35mm & I measured the Pug one at 19mm (or 3/4" in 'old money'). Looking at the pump body casting there all sorts of threaded holes in it so I'm thinking should be able to use a pair of these with threaded rod and a bar across the pulley hub to force it back on.
 
Heat up the pulley in oven and chill the pump in the freezer, should give enough difference to slip on without breaking your casting
 
Woah, that leaky seal was definitely having such a good time in the steering pump it didn't want to leave - ever. Can't recall having to remove a metal-cased seal before, and I hope I never have to again 🤬 Prequel was that for days I've been soaking the periphery of the seal with penetrating fluid. First I reached for my set of "Oil Seal Picks" (seemed like the right thing to do), levering the little pointy end under & beyond the lip and multiple attempts with increasing effort at various points around the circumference produced nothing except the sudden upward release of the pick as the seal tore and the pointy end scribed across the finger of my opposite hand - the cat stood back in amazement as I inflicted the sort of injury on myself that he could only dream of achieving with his razor-sharp flesh-ripping claws.

Round 2 after cleanup and application of 'band-aid' and I decided to drill a 2mm hole at opposite points and use self-tappers to hopefully get a bit more purchase on the thing.
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Fine idea in theory? what happened after much levering against the head of the screw was that they started to tear out (rest of the seal remaining resolutely in place). Before they completely gave out I changed tactics and started knocking the self tappers to rotate the seal in the housing - eventually it started to move. Even when I'd driven it around a full circle it didn't want to come forward at all. After tearing out the self tapper and ripping the outer face of the seal casing I managed to get a pair of mini self-grips on the shredded metal and after lots of slipping off with reapplication even tighter it started to move outward.
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Having got it out of the way the next issue was that the shaft had signs of pitting on the contact face of the seal, putting a new one in would just mean it'd be shredded in no time - incredible that with the thing constantly wetted with escaping ATF it still managed to corrode😡 Don't really know what the recommended approach here would be? other than complete stripdown of the pump and turning the shaft on a lathe for someone with a lot of patience. Ideally you'd find a linishing tool small enough to get in the 7.5mm gap between the seal register and the shaft - dream on. What I did was use a diamond faced 'Hone and Stone' sharpener kit held against the shaft while I turned the shaft by hand. Worked down the grades from 'Medium' to 'Fine' to 'Super Fine' and the shaft is smooth again - OK not mirror-finish but hopefully good enough.
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Drove the new seal in after a cleanup with compressed air followed by white spirit, now just remains to get the hub back on - shining a light down the counterbore on the shaft its threaded internally at M10 so a piece of threaded rod in here should allow the hub to be wound back on providing I can stop the shaft rotating with locknuts on the rod clear of the 'driving nut.'
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...the shaft had signs of pitting on the contact face of the seal, putting a new one in would just mean it'd be shredded in no time
A good solution to the pitted shaft is to fit a thin-walled sleeve, e.g. Timken Redi Sleeve or SKF Speedi Sleeve:
https://www.skf.com/group/products/...smission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve

Not terribly expensive, easy to fit and the slightly larger diameter (and no pitting) might even have nipped up the old seal to seal again.

Have fun,

Rob.
 
So the pump's back in the car, all connected. Was wrong about the internal threading in the counterbore of the input shaft, I'd tried an M10 bolt which did go in about 1/2 turn before binding - which I put down to dirt accumulation in the threads. It is a 3/8" imperial thread (Peugeot's supplier must have been from the USA / Canada?). Luckily I'd bought both flavours of threaded rod from the green shed so was able to rig up a 'pusher' to get the hub back on:
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Now to get the rest back together
 
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