504 GL auto drama.

Do you think the noise would go away when driving and just be there at startup? Sounds unlikely to me but I'm not quite familiar with what it looks like.

Um.. actually, no.:blackeye:

But he wants to separate the engine and gearbox on the assumption it is the flex plate, and I'm just saying that it is easy to check first, before committing to all that work, speculatively.

Pugwash has some good suggestions, particularly "check the simple things first".
 
I second this based upon

a) Always look for the simple stupid things first. This may have something to do with the fact that I do a lot of stupid, but it can save one a lot of unnecessary work

b) The air cleaner makes one of those really impressive "Oh shit! This is going to be expensive" noises when the front rubber mount delaminates or otherwise gives up the ghost. It is a 2 minute fix, longer if one has to wait for a new part.

The noise is greatest at start up

My 404 does this occasionally and I think that many 504's had the same anatomy

I know nothing about automatics and never intend to ( will never own or willingly drive one ) so will not venture into the arcana of these, but attention to any mounts or bushes which may have been overstressed/ruptured may produce a simple solution

I certainly hope so

Best Wishes

Andrew

Hi Wildebeast, I would check engine mounts haven,t de laminated (more so l/hand) due to full throttle and braking hard in gear it would be over stretching l/hand mount and compressing r/hand mount.If eng mount has broken air filter (more so if oil bath type ) may be hitting on brake master cylinder pipes on start up,check air filter rubber mounts as well....jus a couple of thoughts.....jim
 
I second this based upon

a) Always look for the simple stupid things first. This may have something to do with the fact that I do a lot of stupid, but it can save one a lot of unnecessary work

b) The air cleaner makes one of those really impressive "Oh shit! This is going to be expensive" noises when the front rubber mount delaminates or otherwise gives up the ghost. It is a 2 minute fix, longer if one has to wait for a new part.

The noise is greatest at start up

My 404 does this occasionally and I think that many 504's had the same anatomy

I know nothing about automatics and never intend to ( will never own or willingly drive one ) so will not venture into the arcana of these, but attention to any mounts or bushes which may have been overstressed/ruptured may produce a simple solution

I certainly hope so

Best Wishes

Andrew

This post brings to memory the noise in 404 when revved from idle. It sounded horrendous and i diagnosed it as loose muffler baffle/s.

It ended up being a loose clamp riding along the exhaust.

I also place a caveat on this advice: Wildy is and experienced mechanic of many years standing.
 
Sorry to have gone quiet on the subject. I fully appreciate the informative and flattering posts. [robmac].
I've had advice from the trade with various diagnoses, big end etc. The cost of having work done has risen from $1500 plus.
I've still been using the car, with trepidation. Short journeys only and as reported previously the noise is there at start up cold then going quieter on the run.
I haven't had a look at the drive plate thru the bell housing inspection plate, my kingdom for a hoist or a pit.
My most recent thought is to inspect the timing chain and tensioner, this being a reasonably easy task. I have checked the other possibilities as suggested by fellow Froggies.

I have found that if I move the crank via the pulley nut, back and forth a few inches I can hear a light noise from the engine ? I'm thinking of the timing chain, the tensioner having 'collapsed'. or at the worst a cracked piston or a big end. I've ignored the latter because the oil light goes out normally. Also a cracked piston would be noisy most of the time?
I have been on Google auto trans flex plate noise. Very informative including commentary with sound effects.

I've had an "Expression of interest" in the 504 by a young bloke, he came to check it bringing his mechanic with him. Of course after hearing the noise he has gone cold on an offer, I wouldn't blame him!

Another possibility is the offer of an early 505 engine to do a swap. Will see what eventuates? The car deserves another chance, a bit like Lazarus eh?

Thanks again.
 
If you were to remove the fan belt ,then hold your hand on the passenger side of the timeing case you should be able to feel the chain slapping on the inside .when cranking over ,pull the ht lead out of the coil; so it dousnt actually start .pugs ps from memory the tension er is on the drivers side and a rubbing strip on the left ,fixed to th inside of the pressed metal case ,its been a very long time since i had one apart ,
 
There are some good ideas here. A muffler baffle or loose clamp riding along the exhaust.....these might have come loose after over-revving. Plus, they would quieten down.
I bought and sold a 2004 Commodore only this year which had slightly loose heat shields, and the noise went away after warm-up.

Also an air cleaner mount....At least this is easy to check.

Haven't you got some young guy nearby who could check the flew plate for you ? Crikey....it's only a quick jacking-up of the car and two or three 11mm bolts.
 
If you were to remove the fan belt ,then hold your hand on the passenger side of the timeing case you should be able to feel the chain slapping on the inside .when cranking over ,pull the ht lead out of the coil; so it dousnt actually start .pugs ps from memory the tension er is on the drivers side and a rubbing strip on the left ,fixed to th inside of the pressed metal case ,its been a very long time since i had one apart ,

pugwash
Watch this space...
 
Timing cover off. Chain stretched. Tensioner plunger full extended, almost ready to pop out :eek:
COULD IT BE THE SOURCE OF HORRIFIC NOISE ??
 
From personal experience, I reckon that'll be the source of the noise.

Slip in a new chain and tensioner and see if it solves the problem. Engine will run better as well.
 
Timing cover off. Chain stretched. Tensioner plunger full extended, almost ready to pop out :eek:
COULD IT BE THE SOURCE OF HORRIFIC NOISE ??

Hope so. You'll know when it is replaced! Imagine it flapping about on start up and then mostly tensioned once running properly. If it is like the Renault plungers, it would take a finite time to fill the chamber from the small hole if it had drained back out after shut-down?
 
Hey Wildebeest....You probably know this already, but there is a tiny hole behind the tensioner leading to the oil gallery. I was told years ago to always clean this out as it sludges up.

Brakeclean ? Piece of wire ? :confused:
 
Crunch Time.
After a couple of weeks of trying to find the cause of my 504's noisy engine I have finally cried "enough"!
Saturday saw the old girl being trailered away to the new owners address to where a replacement engine awaits.

I have to gratefully thank all at Aussie Frogs for their help.

:cry:

Will now be on the lookout for a reasonable set of wheels,, possibly not a Peugeot. We'll see ?
 
Crunch Time.
After a couple of weeks of trying to find the cause of my 504's noisy engine I have finally cried "enough"!
Saturday saw the old girl being trailered away to the new owners address to where a replacement engine awaits.

I have to gratefully thank all at Aussie Frogs for their help.

:cry:

Will now be on the lookout for a reasonable set of wheels,, possibly not a Peugeot. We'll see ?

:( The last wheels we bought were Series II Renault Scenics, manuals! The Megane range is pretty reliable but, perhaps more to the point as we age a wee bit they are particularly easy to get in and out of!!! Most moderns seem to be a squeeze into unless you get an SUV. The small SUVs perhaps have that advantage too and the Renault Koleos seems very reliable (it's a Nissan in a different dress to an extent). Some would observe that you can't kill a Corolla with an axe but you do have to get in and out of it. Good luck with the hunt.
 
Perth being a small place, I've just bumped into the new owner of your mostly excellent 504 whilst inspecting the remnants of the WASP at Brian E's house. Talk about a village.... I was curious about the brakes on the WASP since there are Renault implications. People did some brave/foolish/unbelievable welding and construction work back then.....
 
Johnno,
You certainly move in interesting circles. Ray, the new owner and Brian. Ray told me he assists Brian with his 'raisin' 205.
The 504 blotted its copy book when Ray was taking it off the trailer, the handbrake held on! Not uncommon with older 504's. In my time as caretaker of this example I had no problems. Ray suggested it may have been because in transit the handbrake was applied?
I sent him a message on how to release the brakes. Among some of the goodies I threw in the boot were some overhauled rear pistons courtesy of its previous owner bar one.

Re some of the lash-up workmanship seen on some of the home built classic racing cars. For instance, grease caps missing from front wheels. Transverse leaf [Fiat 500] spring installed upside down. Engine oil catch tank breather exiting into the cockpit, nice headache there after a lap or three. Tubeless tyres fitted to non safety rim wheels, get a flat and you become a passenger:eek:

Keep in touch.
 
Eek indeed Mr Beeste… There's some horrifying stuff there... But BE will fix it properly, I've no doubt. There's an ongoing Renault debate about tubeless tyres on non-safety rims, some claiming there's a risk of abrasion and overheating WITH tubes, since modern tubeless tyres have internal ribbing. I've never had a problem (I run tubes) but perhaps the scorching performance of the R8 leaves the heat behind.

Let us know how you get on re wheels.
 
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