Hello Peugeot owners: After a trip of around 80km, in the 407 SV 3l 6 cylinder petrol (2005) post it's roadworthy and re-registration, I noticed the engine missing or running rough occasionally. Took it back to the mechanic for a squizz, and after suggesting new plugs and a coil or two, he related the bad news. The engine has begun to leak oil at the back. He is suggesting replacement of seals/gaskets of the Camshaft seal, Crankshaft seal, Valve cover seal and probably the cam block. [he is now saying he would not have passed the roadworthy if the oil leak had surfaced earlier ] As he is not familiar with petrol Peugeots, and has never seen this engine before, he is reluctant to work on it, nor give me a quote to repair. I suggested I would contact 3 peugeot specialists in Geelong and Ballarat. Heard back from one today, who gave me a ball park figure of several thousand dollars to repair! My dilemma therefore is should I pay the dollars or not? The car has done 175,000 and assuming nothing else wears out, how many kms could I expect the engine to last? 250? 300? Are there any members of the group who own a similar model? Chris Sp
407 SV gasket replacement costs and viability
- Thread starter Chris Sp
- Start date
I have no accurate information, but I could offer an opinion?
As far as I know this is a common repair to these engines. And access to the rear of the engine isn't great. So the bulk of the cost will be labour.
Since you'd be removing quite a few things I'd use this as an opportunity to see what else can be refreshed while in there as a preventative.
Only you can answer if it's worth it. Is the car otherwise sound? Do you know its history and do you like the car? If yes then I would happily pay for the required maintenance.
Get a few quotes as you are doing and choose the mechanic you like. The rough running might be unrelated to the oil leaks but coils can often be the culprit. I wouldn't replace them all without a proper diagnosis though .
As far as I know this is a common repair to these engines. And access to the rear of the engine isn't great. So the bulk of the cost will be labour.
Since you'd be removing quite a few things I'd use this as an opportunity to see what else can be refreshed while in there as a preventative.
Only you can answer if it's worth it. Is the car otherwise sound? Do you know its history and do you like the car? If yes then I would happily pay for the required maintenance.
Get a few quotes as you are doing and choose the mechanic you like. The rough running might be unrelated to the oil leaks but coils can often be the culprit. I wouldn't replace them all without a proper diagnosis though .
Thanks LowpugV2; I am keen to get the car back to a 'good thing'. Still awaiting quotes so no rush to do the work. I have the total work done on the car via logbook and receipts. 3 owners, it's in really good nick, and I like driving it! Would like to know if the engine has proved reliable in the long term.
Contact Hardy Automotive in Geelong. 52 44 22 23.
He is more into Audi/VW/Skoda, BMW and Land Rover but also does Peugeot/Citroen/Renault too.
I have found him reasonably priced and good to deal with.
He is more into Audi/VW/Skoda, BMW and Land Rover but also does Peugeot/Citroen/Renault too.
I have found him reasonably priced and good to deal with.
A lot of timing belt kits include the 4 camshaft seals, always possible a previous replacement of them did not use the right tool to tap them into place. I think the only gasket needed will be the intake manifold which might have to be removed to access the valve covers.
The valve covers have a built in gasket, clean surfaces and smear with silicone gasket maker.
Ring around and find the right guy to do it along with a new timing belt.
The valve covers have a built in gasket, clean surfaces and smear with silicone gasket maker.
Ring around and find the right guy to do it along with a new timing belt.
Follow up to responses and suggestions: I tried to contact 3 Peugeot mechanics in Geelong and Ballarat. The major centre in Geelong responded to an email saying they don't service cars over 10 years old. Another Geelong West Autos, haven't responded to my email, and when I rung them, the phone line was dead. Eassons in Ballarat have responded only after I rang them. John Lengton of Timboon: his land line rings out and there doesn't seem to be any other contact for him via the net - other than his address. However I spoke to the head technician at Eassons, and found someone who has a lot of knowledge of this engine and suggested the leaks could be coming from the front of the engine, and leaking to the back. He's also suggesting that if I pop up to Ballarat, he will have a quick look to estimate the work that needs to be done. He's also talking about a silicone gasket seal and replacing the timing belt while certain parts of the engine are off - similar to. your suggestion AlexB. It seems that this v6 3litre engine is unusual and the head technician said if one of 2 components is leaking, there are no replacements able to be obtained! end of engine, end of car! Planning to travel to Ballarat next week to have the leak assessed.
Yes, it's likely to be a really small leak and why needing a new crank seal is unlikely. What's front and what's back get confusing as it is the right bank of the engine that is at the back, the front is pointing to the Front right wheel
Here are some parts diagram of the heads and camshafts. You should be able to get all the parts required and even if PSA doesn't supply a particular seal, there are alternatives.
The cam boxes and covers are sealed with sealant and can develop leaks. All parts in this diagram are available except for 8 and 16 and they are not likely to be involved in your oil leaks.
The camshaft seals are also still available:
The cam boxes and covers are sealed with sealant and can develop leaks. All parts in this diagram are available except for 8 and 16 and they are not likely to be involved in your oil leaks.
The camshaft seals are also still available:
That's very comforting to know David S! Will report more after my visit to the mechanic this week.
A [late] follow up to my last post. The mechanic I consulted in Ballarat was emphatic with the problem with my 407, but his advice was that it was not worth spending any more money on the vehicle. I asked about the life of the automatic gearbox, he suggested it would need replacing at 200,000. (the car has just turned over 170km). Another mechanic said the vehicle is an 'electrical nightmare'! Before I decide to cut my losses I would like to obtain the advice of John Lengton from nearby Timboon. However I haven't been able to contact him yet. I'm still enjoying driving the car; it's leaking a bit of oil, some of which is being heated and causing a smell to come into the cabin. I can live with that, as long as I don't have to keep topping up the oil between services!
I have this same engine in my 2002 Renault Laguna V6. I also have an oil leak that is leaking in the upper part of the cam belt area. I did have a leak onto the back exhaust manifold about 12 months ago that I fixed up by resealing the rear most cam cover. This required removal of the inlet manifold.
I'm due to do a cam belt soon so will check out where the oil leak is actually coming from when I get the 3 plastic cam belt covers off.
I'm not sure what gearbox that Peugeot use in the 407 but Renault use an Aisin Warner AW55 5 speed auto on these engines. I have just changed the oil in my auto and it is still working fine. I changed the oil in the auto 90,000 Km ago also. My car has 239,000 Km on the odo and I expect to get another 100,000 Km out of the car when I have completed the 240,000 Km service.
I do all my work myself so labour costs are not factored in, but the 240,000 Km service has cost me circa $950 in parts.
When you are paying $90 to $100 / hour for labour maintenance cost can soon balloon out of control and it is easy to spend more than the car is worth. Also its hard to find competent mechanics with experience on these engines so you are only paying to do the job once. Like said above only you can tell if the money is well spent or not and are there any other issues with the car that will cost mega bucks to fix
On your oil leak have they degreased the engine and done a bit of a survey so as to guess roughly where the leaks are? it may not be as bad as first thought.
I'm due to do a cam belt soon so will check out where the oil leak is actually coming from when I get the 3 plastic cam belt covers off.
I'm not sure what gearbox that Peugeot use in the 407 but Renault use an Aisin Warner AW55 5 speed auto on these engines. I have just changed the oil in my auto and it is still working fine. I changed the oil in the auto 90,000 Km ago also. My car has 239,000 Km on the odo and I expect to get another 100,000 Km out of the car when I have completed the 240,000 Km service.
I do all my work myself so labour costs are not factored in, but the 240,000 Km service has cost me circa $950 in parts.
When you are paying $90 to $100 / hour for labour maintenance cost can soon balloon out of control and it is easy to spend more than the car is worth. Also its hard to find competent mechanics with experience on these engines so you are only paying to do the job once. Like said above only you can tell if the money is well spent or not and are there any other issues with the car that will cost mega bucks to fix
On your oil leak have they degreased the engine and done a bit of a survey so as to guess roughly where the leaks are? it may not be as bad as first thought.
The leaks are not normally catastrophic !!!
These people you have spoken to don't want to work on it and that's that !!!
Yes the RH bank is a PITA to get to with the engine in the car but it's not impossible
Seriously it's easier to take the engine and box out, take the bits off that need to be taken off, reseal them, do shaft seals and timing belt, put new plugs in while you are there and fresh oil in the transmission and a new filter
There are no cam box seals, it's just gasket goo
These engines are bullet proof
But i'll say it again, the people you have spoken to don't want to do the job and are speaking out of their proverbials
These people you have spoken to don't want to work on it and that's that !!!
Yes the RH bank is a PITA to get to with the engine in the car but it's not impossible
Seriously it's easier to take the engine and box out, take the bits off that need to be taken off, reseal them, do shaft seals and timing belt, put new plugs in while you are there and fresh oil in the transmission and a new filter
There are no cam box seals, it's just gasket goo
These engines are bullet proof
But i'll say it again, the people you have spoken to don't want to do the job and are speaking out of their proverbials
Just like 90% + of "mechanics" in Australia...
Yes, but it may be leaking from the cam boxes, not just the covers. It's mostly a question of economics given age vs value now.
Also, be mindful of distortion in the plastic manifold as it can leak air. You want to be sure the coils on the rear bank are not the original Sagem type that were more prone to failure than the later Delphi coils. Sagem coils are fine on the front if you carry a spare in the boot and a socket to remove the one bolt retaining them.
The spaghetti tube pipes are part of the PCV system and they become brittle with age as shown later in the vid.
Also, be mindful of distortion in the plastic manifold as it can leak air. You want to be sure the coils on the rear bank are not the original Sagem type that were more prone to failure than the later Delphi coils. Sagem coils are fine on the front if you carry a spare in the boot and a socket to remove the one bolt retaining them.
The spaghetti tube pipes are part of the PCV system and they become brittle with age as shown later in the vid.
They are a really easy engine to work on.
If it's leaking from the cam box covers, it's a very easy (less than 2 hour) job to fix, however it must be done correctly and the sealants used must be given sufficient time to cure before the engine is started.
If it's leaking from the cambox-head interface, it's a bit more involved, as the cam belt needs to be removed, but that's still not 'several thousand dollars' worth of work. The seals cost about $4 each, the cam boxes just use a very small amount of sealant.
If you want the camboxes never to leak again, do as I've done and remove the heads, helicoil all of the cam box threads so that they will actually stay torqued down!
If it's leaking from the cam box covers, it's a very easy (less than 2 hour) job to fix, however it must be done correctly and the sealants used must be given sufficient time to cure before the engine is started.
If it's leaking from the cambox-head interface, it's a bit more involved, as the cam belt needs to be removed, but that's still not 'several thousand dollars' worth of work. The seals cost about $4 each, the cam boxes just use a very small amount of sealant.
If you want the camboxes never to leak again, do as I've done and remove the heads, helicoil all of the cam box threads so that they will actually stay torqued down!
It's also an otherwise perfectly good car. Sure it might cost a bit in maintenance but buying another used car doesn't solve anything... And buying new will just cost in depreciation.
Thankyou all for your considered responses! At the moment I'm driving the car once or twice a fortnight, 40 km round trip into town. Enjoying driving it, cruising along effortlessly at around 80km, less than 2k revs. A couple of updates. Since reporting that the engine was running rough, I now use premium unleaded, which I presume the previous owner did not use. Haven't had an issue with engine missing or running rough - I do have $300 worth of spark plugs and a coil which the mechanic ordered with the intention of fitting.
I have had 3 assessments done of the motor. Eassons of Ballarat were confident to do the job, unable to specify the cost, which included a new timing belt kit, but didn't recommend that the work be done. Another mechanic who drove the car while on loan to my partner's daughter, encouraged me to move the car on asap! I took the car to John Lengton in Timboon, who put the car on the hoist to have a good look, and found there were several leaks. He was prepared to do the work, having worked on the same engine fitted to a Citroen. However he was not confident that once he started work that he would find more and more problems. Understandably he was not prepared to provide a quote, but gave the impression the car was not worth spending a lot of money on it.
I will make a separate post about the central entertainment unit...
As I said I like driving the car, despite the beeps of the tyre pressure sensors not working, the ABS light coming on, the back tail gate unclipping every time the driver's back door is opened. My concern now is that the leaking oil may get back into the alternator. When I purchased the car, the alternator wasn't working - caused by oil leaking into it - probably from a leaky oil pressure switch, which the mechanic eventually sourced via eBay in the USA. I note Pugrambo declares the engine is bullet proof - does that mean it will be reliable to start and run despite the leaks! I find it hard to fathom that Peugeot would market a car with an engine that has so many problems - which is probably why this engine has been discontinued?
I have had 3 assessments done of the motor. Eassons of Ballarat were confident to do the job, unable to specify the cost, which included a new timing belt kit, but didn't recommend that the work be done. Another mechanic who drove the car while on loan to my partner's daughter, encouraged me to move the car on asap! I took the car to John Lengton in Timboon, who put the car on the hoist to have a good look, and found there were several leaks. He was prepared to do the work, having worked on the same engine fitted to a Citroen. However he was not confident that once he started work that he would find more and more problems. Understandably he was not prepared to provide a quote, but gave the impression the car was not worth spending a lot of money on it.
I will make a separate post about the central entertainment unit...
As I said I like driving the car, despite the beeps of the tyre pressure sensors not working, the ABS light coming on, the back tail gate unclipping every time the driver's back door is opened. My concern now is that the leaking oil may get back into the alternator. When I purchased the car, the alternator wasn't working - caused by oil leaking into it - probably from a leaky oil pressure switch, which the mechanic eventually sourced via eBay in the USA. I note Pugrambo declares the engine is bullet proof - does that mean it will be reliable to start and run despite the leaks! I find it hard to fathom that Peugeot would market a car with an engine that has so many problems - which is probably why this engine has been discontinued?
What sealant are you blokes using to reseal the camboxes and covers? I was advised Loctite Si598 Maxx or the old Black Maxx which seems to be the same product. It varies between $20 to $35 a tube and 1 tube would probably go close to doing all 4 cambox covers if used sparingly. It can be a bit stiff and awkward to squeeze and keep a nice even bead size without any breaks. I have seen a special 1 handed squeeze attachment on O/S video which the tube fits in with a lever which enables you to maintain a more steady hand and even pressure.
I used Permatex Ultra Black
Permatex® Ultra Black® RTV Silicone Gasket Maker, .5 OZ – Permatex
www.permatex.com