405Mi16 Value in the UK

When I scrapped the car in 2009, it was not at all rusted. On the other hand, in 2004 I saw a red MI16 - the one below - in Québec City, with gaping holes in the sills. This is a more flattering angle. Although the rear camber looks a bit extreme, and we all know what that means......
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I was going to mention the same points as previous posters.

You probably had a bad stroke of luck with the rear suspension problem.

As for extrapolating the car's performance from a base model to the top model, I agree with Peter T. The MI16 is a completely different animal. One of the best drives ever if you have a chance to try, especially the euro/aus versions.

As for plastics, etc. what did you expect?! It's a french car with italian electrics. You wouldn't complain of an Alfa having crap electrics, right? They are the standard!
 
Rear beam bearing failure is something virtually every 405 in North America has had once they approach 160,000 km. It's not bad luck; it's the rule. Same in Britain and France. Even rain will destroy the needle bearings - no salt required.

That Dodge would also easily outcorner a MI16 on smooth pavement. The 405 shone on the bumpy roads that would make lesser cars bounce uncontrollably.

I thought the Australian 405s with XU9J4 had the same 150 HP 9.4:1 CR engine with catalyst as Canada and USA. No?

I didn't expect 404 levels of reliability from the car, but frankly the electrics were far worse than I expected. The wring aged very poorly. When the head gasket blew at 366K km and it needed another rear beam and practically everything replaced, it was a very easy decision to scrap it. 15 years' service was good and the distance achieved too; but I'd not have another, even a T16 (maybe especially a T16!).
 
Mike Tippett said:
Rear beam bearing failure is something virtually every 405 in North America has had once they approach 160,000 km. It's not bad luck; it's the rule. Same in Britain and France. Even rain will destroy the needle bearings - no salt required.

That Dodge would also easily outcorner a MI16 on smooth pavement. The 405 shone on the bumpy roads that would make lesser cars bounce uncontrollably.

I thought the Australian 405s with XU9J4 had the same 150 HP 9.4:1 CR engine with catalyst as Canada and USA. No?

I didn't expect 404 levels of reliability from the car, but frankly the electrics were far worse than I expected. The wring aged very poorly. When the head gasket blew at 366K km and it needed another rear beam and practically everything replaced, it was a very easy decision to scrap it. 15 years' service was good and the distance achieved too; but I'd not have another, even a T16 (maybe especially a T16!).
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I thought you said North American Mi16 were somewhat derated, maybe I misunderstood.

Mine was a XU10.

Yes, the rear beams wear out but mine didn't have the added toe problem you mentioned, nor have I heard of it before. In fact mine did't have any problems really. It was a very low km car we picked off a lady and before her it belonged to a lawyer who over serviced the car beyond reason. When we got it, the rear seat looked like nobody had ever sat on it.

By the end plastics started to age but we sold it back to the same lady still going strong with about 200k on the clock. Mechanically was still perfect.

Maybe we've been lucky but that was a fantastic car and I would have kept it.
 
Had a few 405s and never a problem with rear beams, never heard of anyone that had that problem in this country. Rebuilt quite a few 205 GTi rear beams though. Only two problems were heater controls, which never work and the central locking.
 
I've owned five Mi16's: three locally sold DFW's, a private import Mi16 D6C and my current private import Mi16x4 D6C. The leather Mi16 D6C was certainly a highlight and I regret selling it to John Thorne. He still has it. Damn! None had any real nagging issues, other than the door cards turning inside out from the sun. Yes, the ignition switch was/is an issue. However, the same issue was found on all PSA cars of that era, as it was probably the same part, including Xantia. Adding a relay before the starter solenoid always solved the issue. The biggest issue on all of them was the heater flap motor, which always eventually stripped its gears. I solved this by buying an aftermarket motor with brass gears. The next owner of the Mi16x4 will thank me.

I clearly recall the day picking up the Mi16 D6C in Bankstown on a Friday afternoon. It had no fuel, so I went to the closest servo. Opened the fuel flap, and to my suprise, there is gaping hole, unlike any ADR27A car. I quickly look underneath. No cat! OMG. I open the bonnet and abracadabra, there's a D6C tag on the block. $8000 well spent. I replaced the 14" wheels with SL434's painted the same colour and never looked back.

I was never really interested in the later XU10J4, even though a heaps better car with something like another 1000+ spot welds. The two cars are so very different and share very little common parts. So once I was down the S1 rabbit warren, it was impossible to exit.
 
Oh yes, the heater flap....forgot to add that one. Cut a huge hole in the side of the glovebox (LHD remember) and the sticktion in the flap allowed me to set it to whatever setting was needed. The CDN model also had a thickened glovebox door (and lower dashboard, "passive knee restraints" AKA leg destroyers for idiots who don't use seatbelts) that still used the plastic catch for the hard thin plastic cheapo door that the EU versions got. Those broke after about 5-10 years too and Peugeot had to actually re-engineer a complete latch system in metal and replaced them FOC.

Clutch cable nylon fitting with built-in breakage guaranteed, and designed to happen at the worst possible time. Fortunately the thing was a 2 minute fix - if you had a spare in the glovebox, as most sensible 405 owners did. Soft touch clear paint on the steering wheel stalks - turned to snot after a few years....

In the USA, cars sold in the 405 era required passive restraints. Sensible companies used airbags; Peugeot used electric seatbelts that in the 1989+ 505 were welded to the unreinforced door window frame with predictable catastrophic results (see 1989 newspaper article). For the 405 they used electric seatbelts that ran up the inside of the bodyshell's door aperture. Which still required the front seat occupants to manually attach a lap belt....Why they resisted airbags is unknown but it was the death knell for the marque in North America. A bit off topic, mind you.
505 1989 USA-Vancouver_Sun_1989_08_14.jpg
 
Mike Tippett said:
Oh yes, the heater flap....forgot to add that one. Cut a huge hole in the side of the glovebox (LHD remember) and the sticktion in the flap allowed me to set it to whatever setting was needed. The CDN model also had a thickened glovebox door (and lower dashboard, "passive knee restraints" AKA leg destroyers for idiots who don't use seatbelts) that still used the plastic catch for the hard thin plastic cheapo door that the EU versions got. Those broke after about 5-10 years too and Peugeot had to actually re-engineer a complete latch system in metal and replaced them FOC.

Clutch cable nylon fitting with built-in breakage guaranteed, and designed to happen at the worst possible time. Fortunately the thing was a 2 minute fix - if you had a spare in the glovebox, as most sensible 405 owners did. Soft touch clear paint on the steering wheel stalks - turned to snot after a few years....

In the USA, cars sold in the 405 era required passive restraints. Sensible companies used airbags; Peugeot used electric seatbelts that in the 1989+ 505 were welded to the unreinforced door window frame with predictable catastrophic results (see 1989 newspaper article). For the 405 they used electric seatbelts that ran up the inside of the bodyshell's door aperture. Which still required the front seat occupants to manually attach a lap belt....Why they resisted airbags is unknown but it was the death knell for the marque in North America. A bit off topic, mind you.
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I would just put it out there if you can’t put a seat belt on you really are better off not being part of the breathing population.
 
Mike Tippett said:
Oh yes, the heater flap....forgot to add that one. Cut a huge hole in the side of the glovebox (LHD remember) and the sticktion in the flap allowed me to set it to whatever setting was needed. The CDN model also had a thickened glovebox door (and lower dashboard, "passive knee restraints" AKA leg destroyers for idiots who don't use seatbelts) that still used the plastic catch for the hard thin plastic cheapo door that the EU versions got. Those broke after about 5-10 years too and Peugeot had to actually re-engineer a complete latch system in metal and replaced them FOC.

Clutch cable nylon fitting with built-in breakage guaranteed, and designed to happen at the worst possible time. Fortunately the thing was a 2 minute fix - if you had a spare in the glovebox, as most sensible 405 owners did. Soft touch clear paint on the steering wheel stalks - turned to snot after a few years....

In the USA, cars sold in the 405 era required passive restraints. Sensible companies used airbags; Peugeot used electric seatbelts that in the 1989+ 505 were welded to the unreinforced door window frame with predictable catastrophic results (see 1989 newspaper article). For the 405 they used electric seatbelts that ran up the inside of the bodyshell's door aperture. Which still required the front seat occupants to manually attach a lap belt....Why they resisted airbags is unknown but it was the death knell for the marque in North America. A bit off topic, mind you.
View attachment 221866
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All part of the Gallic charm of French car ownership Mike!
 
dmccurtayne said:
I would just put it out there if you can’t put a seat belt on you really are better off not being part of the breathing population.
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Even if you DID put the manual lap belt on in one of these US market 505s from 1989+, the shoulder belt mount was incapable of sustaining the g-forces that a belted passenger would impose on it, hence the failing grade in the article posted above. The US population wanting to still breathe would have to select a different marque of car, which they did, in droves.

Fortunately, none of the Canadian market Peugeots got these asinine seat belts.
 
I had a 306 with a rear beam failure. Increased wear on the left rear, too much camber and toe etc. Was the water ingress into the bearings of the beam. Was an relatively inexpensive fix given I had to pay someone.

@PeterT is the Mi16x4 on the road now?
 
Mike Tippett said:
Even if you DID put the manual lap belt on in one of these US market 505s from 1989+, the shoulder belt mount was incapable of sustaining the g-forces that a belted passenger would impose on it, hence the failing grade in the article posted above. The US population wanting to still breathe would have to select a different marque of car, which they did, in droves.

Fortunately, none of the Canadian market Peugeots got these asinine seat belts.
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That's not a fault of peugeot but the ridiculous laws in the country you choose to live in
 
Well, there were other automakers who used these belts, but attached to the bodyshell rather than the thin window frame! Engineering brain fart, Peugeot.

Anyway, Canada's cars were OK in this respect.
 
Afterthought for a market they probably didn't care much about. Not sure why they even bothered, frankly.

Same story here. Because of our tax system many of their cars don't make it here. It would be too expensive for them to just make a few so they don't bother. Fortunately, our legislation is pretty much aligned with theirs so they don't have to reengineer the cars but we're still on the wrong side of the road and there's also the cost of homologation so there's some cost to consider. End result is we miss out on some great cars or pay through the nose for them just like you North American lot.
 
The funny thing is, they started here with a full range: 403 sedan, 403 wagon, 403 Cabriolet, 403 Pick-up, 403 2 door van, D4B...

Then 404 sedan carb and Injection, wagon, family, Coupé and Cabriolet Injection with Nardi floor shift.

Then 204 sedan, wagon, Coupé, Cabriolet....

And then it all went to pot.
 
And the North American 404 seatbelts were lap sash and secure.
My Aunty said she would have died in a head on collision in any other car than a 404. The seatbelt waxed Uncle’s chest hair. They took the insurance money straight into the Californian Peugeot dealer to buy a second 404. That was late 1960s.
How did it go to pot later?
 
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