Does anyone know what they are?
Cheers,
Thanos
Cheers,
Thanos
405 Mi16 spring rates
- Thread starter ThanosK
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Rears only 20 mm or so so pretty light. You can fit early Berlingo rear bars, 21.3 mm, the Berlingo/Partner uses a 405 drum brake rear end complete. Make sure it is the right model Berlingo though, some have smaller bars.
Thank you, Graham, I will look for them. For some reason I thought that the Mi16 bars were 21.3 mm. Will the 20 mm be adequate for gravel, or do I use the 21.3 mm? I have the option of getting some made, should I go to 23 mm for tarmac?
I also heard that the rear bars from a 306 S16 are 5 mm longer and they can be machined to fit the 405 because they have the same number of splines.
Graham, have you ever rallied a 405 on gravel? Can it be raised to increase clearance (it seems pretty low). I will fit camper adjustable top mounts to get some negative camber in the front, so I can compensate with the camber plates if raised.
Do you have any information on the front spring rate?
I also heard that the rear bars from a 306 S16 are 5 mm longer and they can be machined to fit the 405 because they have the same number of splines.
Graham, have you ever rallied a 405 on gravel? Can it be raised to increase clearance (it seems pretty low). I will fit camper adjustable top mounts to get some negative camber in the front, so I can compensate with the camber plates if raised.
Do you have any information on the front spring rate?
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I have a couple of front springs, could get them tested, not sure where though. Would be worthwhile getting the Berlingo bars I think and way cheaper than getting special ones made. 205s use thicker bars than this and are shorter, so stiffer, and the cars weigh less. I have used 405s on gravel, they need good underbody protection but work very well. Only taken them in a small number of rallies though.
Thank you, Graham. I will get the springs tested here, easy enough to do. The Peugeot Sport torsion bars for the 106 and the 205 are 23mm so I am sure this will be a good start for the 405. Some of the hill climb 106 here use 24.2mm bars, so I am sure that the 21,3 will too soft for the 405 on tarmac; may be perfect for gravel though. What diameter torsion bars do you use for the 205 for tarmac and gravel?
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Don't do tarmac but have 21.3 on the 309 for gravel. 175 lb coilover front springs and MCA canister suspension all round. By some fluke the 405 bars fit the 309, different suspension otherwise. 405 is quite different from the 205/309/306, front and rear.
In a 205, it's 23mm bars + 650lbs of override springs, for an effective total of approx. 450lbs on the rear. I use 500lbs on the front for A050's and 600lbs for slicks.
I'd be doing similar for a 405 on tarmac. The longer 23mm bars in a 405 won't be as brutal as the shorter 205 bars.
If you wanted a quick change of spring rates, fit 23mm bars and add/subtract override springs as desired.
In regards to the rear ARB, fit the largest you can for tarmac. I currently use 1" but I'm making a 28mm bar at present.
Front ARB - remove it.
I'd be doing similar for a 405 on tarmac. The longer 23mm bars in a 405 won't be as brutal as the shorter 205 bars.
If you wanted a quick change of spring rates, fit 23mm bars and add/subtract override springs as desired.
In regards to the rear ARB, fit the largest you can for tarmac. I currently use 1" but I'm making a 28mm bar at present.
Front ARB - remove it.
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Thank you, Graham.
Thank you for all that, Peter. I am pretty sure that we cannot use override springs, so I will work with the bars alone. Interesting about removing the front ARB, makes total sense to me.
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There is a lot of roll resistance in a 405, need to compensate lack of arb with spring rates. I’m using a 205 gti one on the front of my 309, a lot smaller than the 309 one.
I see that , Peter is using much higher spring rates than I expected but no ARB. The 175 lbs spring rate you are using is lower than I expected (I was thinking 250 for gravel), so using the Gti ARB makes sense. I will start with 300 lbs springs and small ARB, remove the ARB, add spring rate and see how it goes.
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Is the arb on the 1.4 smaller? The 8 valve 405 arbs here are the same as the Mi16. Also, the springs are very similar. 405 is heavier than the 309 so could go up a bit.
Thank you! Did you use a front ARB? Did you modify the bushings or mounts of the rear beam? Did you race it in the stock height? Very new in the 405, so I have a lot of questions
Any 405 need to know things for a newbie?
*Front ARB-Yes.
*No modification to the rear suspension other than the bars and adjustable GAZ shocks.
*Ride height lowered no further than LCA’s at horizontal. Rear ride height 12mm higher than front.
* Front-max neg camber (2°) and caster (as far back as strut tower allowed), 550 lb coil overs, adjustable GAZ shocks.
*No modification to the rear suspension other than the bars and adjustable GAZ shocks.
*Ride height lowered no further than LCA’s at horizontal. Rear ride height 12mm higher than front.
* Front-max neg camber (2°) and caster (as far back as strut tower allowed), 550 lb coil overs, adjustable GAZ shocks.
Thank you, this is very useful!